TO WONDER WHY WOMEN DONT MIND BEING 2ND CLASS CITIZENS

[MrsClown]

I am a feminist. I am 52 years old with 4 grown up children. I shave my legs, paint my nails and wear make up. I am heterosexual and married. I just wondered, why do people assume that I have hairy legs and am a lesbian! Yes, some feminists are lesbians but we are a mixed bunch. Also, can anyone tell me why most women do not mind the fact that they cant walk around where they want to at night, and if they do and something happens they get part of the blame. Why dont women mind that the list of BBC Sports Personality is all male. Why dont women mind that other women are being bought and sold for sex and some are trafficked. If women do mind, why do they not at least attempt to do something about it. Why do most women ridicule me when I say I am a feminist, after all I am in good company (Annie Lennox, Helena Kennedy, Josie Long, Diane Abbott etc). Why do most women think it is ok for men of all ages (including elderly men) have the right to leer at a woman's body (who is probably young enough to be their grand daughter) every day in a 'newspaper'. I could go on. Is there no end to what women will put up with.

I am not being callous with my questions. I have been a feminist for about 40 years and things dont seem to be that much better for women, infact the objectification is much worse. I wondered if anyone would answer me to satisfy my curiosity. I have been ridiculed by so many women during discussions. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but it is usually the non fem who gets annoyed and starts getting upset. Infact, on many occasions men have agreed with me! I cant understand why a mother would not want her daughter to have the same rights as her son.

Sorry to go on but I hope someone will satisfy my curiosity.

Dancingmustard earlier in the thread you claimed that radical feminism aims for superiority for women not equality. You claimed the radicals insult women but you didn't actually elaborate on what you meant by that.

The first is just plain incorrect. The second is just vague mudslinging.

This is exactly the sort of thing I am talking about.

Thank for apologising for any offence you have caused. If you mean it, will you do me a favour and go and find out what the definition of radical feminism really is before you have a pop at it, and the women who support it, in the future? Cheers.

Why dont you do a search on my username if you feel like being even more stalky beachcomber, you could analyse my posts to your little hearts content then .
I agreed with sozzledchops because she put into words exactly how I feel but far more eloquently than i could.
That ok with you? Let me know if it's not tho won't you.

I apologised and then you question my sincerity by adding "If you mean it".

Some of the radical feminist authors do come across as hating manhood don't they?

Men know everything - all of them - all the time - no matter how stupid or inexperienced or arrogant or ignorant they are.
Andrea Dworkin

Only when manhood is dead - and it will perish when ravaged femininity no longer sustains it - only then will we know what it is to be free.
Andrea Dworkin

"All men are rapists and that's all they are" Marilyn French Author, "The Women's Room" (quoted again in People Magazine) "All men are rapists and that's all they are ..." Feminist Marilyn French, People Magazine (Percent of reported rape or near-rape incidents = .07% [The FBI's Uniform Crime Report lists for the year 1996])

Do you agree with these radical statements?

got to go on school run but briefly - the 'all men are rapists' quote is spoken by a character in a work of fiction.

The Dworkin quote refers to 'manhood' as a social construct and 'femininity' as a social construct, not 'all men' and 'all women'. It talks about patterns of behaviour, not people.

I could fill the thread with quotes like that Elderberry.
Manhood means manhood to 99.9% of the people who read it,if she meant humankind she's have wrote it.
Manhood if ambiguous was deliberately used in that way.
Radical feminism will always be fringe politics/ideology because it's not readilly accessible to the mainstream.
And it hates to be challenged.

what sort of feminism do you prefer dancingmustard? Or what sort of feminist do you identify as?

It's not ambiguous to people who actually read Dworkin properly, rather than taking quotes out of context in a deliberate attempt to misrepresent what she wrote.

I'm sure you could fill the page with misrepresentations of Dworkin easily, yes.

Funny how people always pick on that same Marilyn French one though. Be honest DancingMustard - did you know it was a fictional character that said it? Or did you get it from one of those antifeminist pages that gathers such quotes while failing to mention little details like that?

if I need help, in the form of very clear getting-to-the-roots advice, and there were no radical feminists to turn to here I'd seriously consider shooting myself. I do realise this is an argument in favour of abolishing the fwr boards, if you are anyone but me, but I know I'm not the only one who finds it (trolls aside) the safest place on mn

I think the FWR boards should stay, for exactly the above reason. I think they have a valuable place and role.

My view is more that the crap that MN Feminists get is more to do with attitude than ideology.

Yes of course I believe all man are rapists because I base my politics and entire world view on an out of context quote from a fictional character from a work of fiction. I do this because I'm a Radical Feminist and as everyone knows, rad fems are extremist man hating loons with a Master Plan to Take Over The World by means of being really hairy and shrill.

Or wait have I got the radical feminist mixed up with The Straw Feminist??

The Straw Feminist is close cousins with the Straw Man (she hates him though coz he's a man).

Phew, just as well I'm on of those radical feminists and not a Straw Feminist - they sound really lacking in credibility!

The Straw Feminist has a cute little friend called Fallacy. They like to hang out together on internet forums and websites getting up to mischief.

rad fems are extremist man hating loons with a Master Plan to Take Over The World by means of being really hairy and shrill.

ROFL! Hairy and shrill are some powerful weapons, shouldn't be used lightly

FWIW I do not hate men, I love men and I know lots of brilliant kind respectful men. I do despise how some men treat women though and how societal constructs do still repress women as a whole. Interesting thread on AIBU at the moment about lapdancers which might be worth a look - this article was interesting www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/19/gender.uk

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