TO WONDER WHY WOMEN DONT MIND BEING 2ND CLASS CITIZENS

[MrsClown]

I am a feminist. I am 52 years old with 4 grown up children. I shave my legs, paint my nails and wear make up. I am heterosexual and married. I just wondered, why do people assume that I have hairy legs and am a lesbian! Yes, some feminists are lesbians but we are a mixed bunch. Also, can anyone tell me why most women do not mind the fact that they cant walk around where they want to at night, and if they do and something happens they get part of the blame. Why dont women mind that the list of BBC Sports Personality is all male. Why dont women mind that other women are being bought and sold for sex and some are trafficked. If women do mind, why do they not at least attempt to do something about it. Why do most women ridicule me when I say I am a feminist, after all I am in good company (Annie Lennox, Helena Kennedy, Josie Long, Diane Abbott etc). Why do most women think it is ok for men of all ages (including elderly men) have the right to leer at a woman's body (who is probably young enough to be their grand daughter) every day in a 'newspaper'. I could go on. Is there no end to what women will put up with.

I am not being callous with my questions. I have been a feminist for about 40 years and things dont seem to be that much better for women, infact the objectification is much worse. I wondered if anyone would answer me to satisfy my curiosity. I have been ridiculed by so many women during discussions. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but it is usually the non fem who gets annoyed and starts getting upset. Infact, on many occasions men have agreed with me! I cant understand why a mother would not want her daughter to have the same rights as her son.

Sorry to go on but I hope someone will satisfy my curiosity.

you are not recruiting any feminists with this frankly insulting OP

We are discussion it. We're obviously just not 'getting it right'.

Are our contributions not valid?

What's your view on whether I should eat DD2s chocolate from her advent calendar MrsC?

That's the issue facing this particular woman today.

Discussing it.

I'd far rather be in Western Europe than in Saudi where I wouldn't be allowed to drive, go out of the house without swathing myself from head to toe, or have the freedoms I have now.

I was quite cross last night though when I watched the Joys of Teen sex, and it focused on what a vagina should look like, and the boys judged girls on their vaginas. Not one girl commented that dicks aren't the prettiest things in creation either, or that they also come in a variety of shapes and sizes. They should have quoted the Sylvia Plath bit from the Bell Jar about how male genitalia look like turkey giblets. I always giggle when I make stock from the giblets at Christmas.

I'm not being patronising. Not all women are that familiar with feminism. It has nothing to do with their intelligence, they may simply not have paid it that much attention because they have been focusing on other things.

'women on here don't like discussing women's issues' - eh?!

What a ridiculous and pompous post, I have no clue what to say. I am currently following two threads about live labour, one where a woman feels isolated after giving birth, one where a woman is plucking up the courage to leave her abusive H with support from MNers, a debate on the new C-section guidelines, several threads on the strikes and how the politics affect family finances and women's wages, a woman figuring out how to support her daughter who has lied about being pregnant, a thread about uterine abnormalities, and several others.

Tell me which of these (or for that matter any thread on MN) is not a 'women's issue'?

I don't think that Millie is being patronising. I don't consider myself a feminist, but would bridle if a male thought I was less of a person / less capable because of my gender.

i am not sure many women are happy to be second class citizerns but many will overlook or worse excuse crap behaviour from men because well that is what men do they are selfish blah blah blah

Women are not 2nd class citizens at all - I don't know anyone who thinks that.
Men look at women, women look at men. Woman are not safe everywhere, neither are men, we all have to be careful - that's just common sense.
I agree pornography has got worse ( more of it, more easily available ) and women are still objectified in mainstream society - I can't see that changing.
Re: all feminist are hairy lesbians - that is still the stereotypical image I'm afraid, probably because a lot of feminists are lesbians - especially the famous ones ( Julie Bindel for example )

I don't see how Mrs Clown is being insulting.

She is simply expressing her amazement that in the wider world people aren't screaming all day long about how unfair things are.

Fair enough.

I have got my feminism book out and dusting it down now just found it having went into my bookshelf looking for classics for the Gatsby thread!

Am I am feminist? I don't know and frankly don't care.

Am I involved, interested and engaged with discussions and action on matters of discrimination and abuse? Yes. In particular human trafficing and immigration support- not necessarily for the sex trade however.

I am not a second class citizen, am not aware of being discriminated against, have never been sexually assaulated or subject to domestic abuse and find it incredibly difficult to engage with the femininism topic on MN as I just don't see or accept the patriarchy position that is presented there. The arguments are not convincing - they remind of the fundamental positions that are argued by some religious sects. That doesn not mean I view woman as inferior.

And Scaryteacher may be very familiar with feminism, but have decided for various reasons that it isn't for her. It wouldn't prevent her from acting in a feminist way on many occasions.

I mind all those things. Stop shouting.

And I am not a second class citizen, and don't feel like one.

ry, really.

Some women are lesbians

Most women are feminists

Some Lesbians shave

Some feminists shave

Some don't

Most feminists are not Lesbians. That is frankly ridiculous and irrelevant.

yes because no baby issues, relationship issues etc etc are ever posted on aibu??

and i believe this is saying she can only post in feminism

^Sevenfold Fri 02-Dec-11 11:35:31
you comment on men leering at woman's bodies in a newspaper.
so woman never look at men.....??
you have a topic where you can post^

MrsClown...From most of the replies, I think CandyCaner has got it right.

I switched off when you said this. Who do you think you are? A spokeswoman for feminism? I don't care how old you are or where you work, you're not seeking discussion, you're seeking to 'educate the poor stupid women on AIBU'. Feminism to you is obviously a series of 'buzz words' that the rest of us must also use, or not be a 'proper' feminist. That's how you come across to me anyway.

I too wish that AIBU wouldn't be 'used' as some kind of belligerent captive audience.

MrsClown - I think what you have to say is very interesting. I am not offended because I understand you weren't calling anyone a 'second class citizen', you were simply stating that a lot of society views it that way.

It is in the grammar Altkinmum. The use of the word 'some' is not required in the sentence because the grammar identifies 3 different groups of women: women who are feminists, who are not feminists and who women who are not familiar with feminism.

Most feminists may not be lesbians - but most lesbians are feminists - dress it up however you want hully.

I'm with LyingWitch on this one.