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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

TO WONDER WHY WOMEN DONT MIND BEING 2ND CLASS CITIZENS

489 replies

MrsClown · 02/12/2011 11:10

I am a feminist. I am 52 years old with 4 grown up children. I shave my legs, paint my nails and wear make up. I am heterosexual and married. I just wondered, why do people assume that I have hairy legs and am a lesbian! Yes, some feminists are lesbians but we are a mixed bunch. Also, can anyone tell me why most women do not mind the fact that they cant walk around where they want to at night, and if they do and something happens they get part of the blame. Why dont women mind that the list of BBC Sports Personality is all male. Why dont women mind that other women are being bought and sold for sex and some are trafficked. If women do mind, why do they not at least attempt to do something about it. Why do most women ridicule me when I say I am a feminist, after all I am in good company (Annie Lennox, Helena Kennedy, Josie Long, Diane Abbott etc). Why do most women think it is ok for men of all ages (including elderly men) have the right to leer at a woman's body (who is probably young enough to be their grand daughter) every day in a 'newspaper'. I could go on. Is there no end to what women will put up with.

I am not being callous with my questions. I have been a feminist for about 40 years and things dont seem to be that much better for women, infact the objectification is much worse. I wondered if anyone would answer me to satisfy my curiosity. I have been ridiculed by so many women during discussions. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but it is usually the non fem who gets annoyed and starts getting upset. Infact, on many occasions men have agreed with me! I cant understand why a mother would not want her daughter to have the same rights as her son.

Sorry to go on but I hope someone will satisfy my curiosity.

OP posts:
CandyCaner · 02/12/2011 12:09

Where did I talk about getting ti right? Hmm

StaceymAloneForver · 02/12/2011 12:09

i do not agree with OP but i do feel she has a right to post here

AIBU is not a captive audience you do not have to read it/reply if you do not want to

JeremyVile · 02/12/2011 12:09

"It reduces women to being sex objects. Doesnt it bother you that women of all ages do not have the same option to leer at young fit men. I know Heat (or some other drivel magazine) have hunk of the week or something but I am talking about the general press. It is not a morality issue it is an equality issue"

I can see you're already getting a bit of a kicking here, but that ^ quote is so completely opposite to what feminism is about imo. No i bloody well do not hanker after the same opportunities to objectify 'young fit men'. I want our society to stop objectifying female bodies so that some rich old twat can get richer off the back of it.

altinkum · 02/12/2011 12:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HugosGoatee · 02/12/2011 12:11

Candy - you didn't, but OP told us that you got it right Grin

NinkyNonker · 02/12/2011 12:11

No Candy, the OP said you were getting it right, I think because she saw you as the only one entirely agreeing with her! It is that that is getting backs up.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 02/12/2011 12:12

Stacey... She does, but in the same way that other topics are confined to their respective places on the board, this isn't the right place. Why not 'chat' if not 'feminism'?

Hullygully · 02/12/2011 12:13

I think most of this thread just proves Mrs Clown's point.

What on earth is there to object to in her OP?

There is nothing more depressing than seeing a woman write "I am not a feminist."

Hullygully · 02/12/2011 12:13

And why th efuck shouldn't it be here?

Why does it have to be ghettoised?

It affects all of us.

It's not some abstract debating point.

StaceymAloneForver · 02/12/2011 12:14

but that was not what was said by sevenfold it was basically (paraphrasing) go back to your own topic which is both rude and uncalled for

anyway i shall be off as i'm distracting from the actual thread somewhat!

Glitterkitten · 02/12/2011 12:14

yawwwn

I'm a woman. I will not tolerate a man telling me what I should do/think/how I should live my life.

Nor would I take that from a woman.

WorraLiberty · 02/12/2011 12:14

There's nothing more depressing than a holier than thou OP, who over generalises and puts other people down.

Her bosoms must be totally hoiked out.

toboldlygo · 02/12/2011 12:14

I have never been made to feel like a second class citizen or felt that I have been put at any disadvantage because of my sex (with the possible exception of not being able to play contact rugby at school, such a crucial life-changing issue Hmm). I do not 'put up with' anything.

I have no issue with porn, frequently objectify and leer at men, have read fiction that included rape fantasy and didn't combust with indignation, walk around wherever the hell I want to, couldn't give a stuff about the BBC sports personality list as it seldom has anything to do with the sports I'm involved in, am concerned about the sex industry and trafficking but not enough to give up what little spare time I have to campaign about it, have doubts as to whether that would make a smidge of difference anyway and regardless there are issues further up my priority list than that.

I have enjoyed following many discussions in the feminism topic here and have learnt a lot but I refuse to describe myself as a feminist. I am not a feminist. There, I said it.

emmam25 · 02/12/2011 12:15

I wanted to add a long discourse as to how I feel it is very unreasonable of the OP to suggest women in the UK are second class citizens because of page 3 and sports personality lists when there are many, many women living in regions where they are killed by their own families for "disrespecting" them by talking to a man. I think that really does constitute second class. But I can see anyone expressing an opposite view point has been shot down/ignored/told we don't get it Hmm

coccyx · 02/12/2011 12:16

I don't accept being a second class citizen, but I am not a hairy or non hairy feminist either

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 02/12/2011 12:17

I can think of a lot more depressing points of view than that, Hully. Is there any woman here who would actually think she were a second class citizen? I doubt it.

Many women identify with many points of feminism... they don't necessarily want or need to wear a 'badge' for that.

Hullygully · 02/12/2011 12:18

It's a spectrum, emmam, isn't it? All of those things make women second class, but of course some are worse than others.

Hullygully · 02/12/2011 12:18

Lying - but that isn't what she said.

It was more a great despairing cry of When Will It End?

Which I totally empathise with.

FreudianSlipper · 02/12/2011 12:19

some women make themselves look very stupid when they claim feminists have done nothing for them and only make things harder for women

surely if you want yourself, your sisters, mother, friends, daughters to be treated as an equal to men then you have feminist beliefs also if you think we shoudl have equal pay you have feminist beliefs, that you should be able to divorce on you wanting to not having to have your fathers permission to, to be be able to vote, to take control of your own life if you think you should have the right to all this then you have feminists beleifs because it is not that long ago that feminists had to fight for all women to do this and it is so sad that so many want to foget or ignore this

squeakytoy · 02/12/2011 12:20

I completely agree with lying too.

I am not a second class citizen, have never been treated like one, and if I felt I had been, I would open my gob and tell the person who was doing it.

However I am not a feminist. I disagree with many of the feminist hardline approaches and view points, to the extent that I find it so militant and biased against men, that it completely misses the point of equality. I also feel that the more vocal feminists are strident in their manner, and unable to accept that other women may not agree with them, and therefore those women are "apologists" for men. That is the attitude I have come across on here many times, and it is that pushy, overbearing "I am right, you are wrong" talking down to that I despise.

I believe in equality, but I also believe that men and women are different, have different strengths, different attitudes, and different traits. Some things are typically male, others are typically female. It is not stereotyping, it is nature.

MrsHankey · 02/12/2011 12:20

I'm a feminist and I am not a second class citizen.

I asked my DP lately if he thought I was a feminist, he said no Confused,

I was amazed that he thought this but the main reason was that, like OP, I don't 'look' like a 'stereotypical feminist'
I explained the reasons why I am.

He has decided he is a feminist too Grin

MillyR · 02/12/2011 12:20

I have to say that as a feminist I don't really care about the sports personality of the year issue.

People will have different issues that concern them, and many women will fight for things like better maternity care, or more choice in maternity care for women. Many women who do that will not consider themselves to be feminists, but there behaviour helps women as a group.

Hullygully · 02/12/2011 12:20

Do you believe women are the equal of men and should have equal rights?

Yes = you are a feminist.

No = er, let's not go there.

Tortington · 02/12/2011 12:21

im not a feminist ideologically

OrmIrian · 02/12/2011 12:21

Agree with jeremyvile - I object to objectification full stop.

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