to think this is unfair by the nursery and to feel hard done by?

[choceyes]

Well I know I probably am being unreasonable so this is more of moan that anythign I guess.

My work nursery that both my DCs go to has about 3/4 staff training days a year. Last year whilst I was on maternitly leave with DD, I sent DS 2 days a week thur and Fri. The inset days always fell on a friday, so I lost about 3 (i think)of them (also the extra bank holiday on kate and wills wedding day fell on a friday too). I thought well fair enough, they have to do the inset days sometimes and friday is their quitest day, so it will inconvinience the least amount of parents.
I am back at work now and DCs go Mon-Wed, as I work on those days.
I was asking about christmas closure and they told me that they have an inset day on Tuesday Jan 3!

Luckily my DH is a teacher and doesn't have to go back till the 5th so can look atfter them both. BUT, why should he have to? Yet again I'm paying good money for TWO DCs to lose out on a nursery day, and a resting day for DH that he really really needs. He has a very stressful job as a teacher, comes home and does household chores till about 9 and never a break in the weekend as we have 2 small DCs and he deserves the 2 days of rest he thought he was going to have.

We don't have any other type of childcare as both sets of parents live miles away so we are either at work or with the children who are 3yrs and 14 months, and very hard work.

As I said I know nurseyr is not doing this to spite me and theres nothing I can do about it, but nevertheless AIBU to feel a bit put out by this?

I dont get your objection to baysitters if you use nursery. As someone else said, if you get a regular babysitter they will not be a stranger for long (just as the nursery staff are no longer strangers)! In fact, you might ask the nursery staff if any of them would babysit.

My DD's nursery doesnt have inset days, but they do charge a fixed fee per day per month that your child attends. My DD goes Monday and Tuesday, so I pay the same price despite all the bank holidays as someone whose child goes on Tuesday Wednesday. Always annoys me. Also, they are closed for Christmas from 16th December to 5th Jan. Seems to be the policy of all the nurseries around here.

And if you are worried about having a babysitter in the evenings because they are with nursery staff all day, use a babysitter at the weekends or on days you have been home as you work p/t

Your problem isn't the nursery, it's the night wakings! You poor things (you & DH, not the kids). You're so sleep deprived, then the kids are all over the place, cling and act up, the housework piles up, it all spirals.

I was an attachment mum, or whatever they call it these days - but love, you're "putting the kids first" and they're running you ragged.

Try taking turns with your DH, so you each get some time to sleep, to sort out, catch up.

Much easier to implement a routine when you're not falling over too tired to think straight.

Or try the Flylady 15-minutes stuff. Something. Anything!

Or - heresy, I know - but if they won't go to sleep, let the older one sit on the sofa and you get on with things.

I feel for you, and possibly the nursery isn't really the problem, Yes, kids are hard work, but this is crazy - for you and for them.

WHY would you send your DCs to nursery when their father is home, rest days????, is it not enjoyable to spend time with his children. Being away from school is rest.

I am very saddened that your children are such a burden. Rest days....

Unless your DH is 75years, time with his children is rest.....

Your three yr old needs exercise, a decent diet and he will sleep.

To be honest you sound wishy washy and selfish. You would rather fear your DH looking after his two, ONLY two, children than sort out bedtime because you find it upsetting.

You must know you're going very wrong if you dread a day with the dcs.

sorry OP but you and your DH are making martyrs out of yourselves.

Perhaps you're trying too hard? Not a bad thing..

...but your DH won't let your kids watch TV, only 30 mins at the end of the day?

He does housework til 9pm? I mean is there some things you could relax a bit on?

Do you work weekends? Is there a good reason you can't get a babysitter? Theres lots of childcare professionals that also do evening babysitting. We have a good friend that does this, works in a nursery during the day and babysits at wknds for extra cash, I'm sure theres a website for it?

I mean we're finding things tough at the moment, my DH works/studies 7 days a week! I study part-time and look after our 3yr old and 5month old the rest of the time. And we don't have any family close by either but few, not many, good friends. As soon as the baby is old enough, we'll definitely get a babysitter.

Its hard but I ain't that strict on housework and TV! Probably that much has saved my sanity.

Well said ljny.. I was attachmenty too, also co-slept, still bfing him at 23 months.. but you can put down boundaries. I think it has been easier for me maybe than you because you were obviously pregnant/with a tiny baby when your older one was much smaller and I am a waste of space while pregnant, so tired I don't stick at anything and I would have found it hard. But it is still retrievable!

First of all, think about what you are willing to change and what would really constitute a proper break. Do you need to be getting out and doing something in the evenings e.g. a hobby, that you and dh could do alternate weekday evenings? I resisted this for a long time because I had some weirdy guilt about it but when I started, it was very refreshing.

Find some sort of babysitter. I read in some crappy American book that it is the best money you will ever spend on your marriage. I also resisted this (oh but I can't, I'm breastfeeding/he won't go to sleep/she's a stranger etc) but when we finally chose someone and did it, guess what? Just like in nursery etc, he went to sleep no bother. And you know what, if he had been asleep on the sofa at 11 o clock for the sake of getting out one night a month it is worth it! We can barely afford it but it really does give you a bit of sanity to meet as an adult, non-parenting couple, even better if you can meet with friends and be "forward facing" instead of just totally rooted in the family dynamic all the time.

Get dd on a cup. It can be done. Then you can work on night-weaning. It doesn't have to end bfing. I thought I would miss night feedings. Ha! I do not!

It is hard I know, but that's just life if you choose to have kids.

If you have a non-sleeper or two, you will have a much harder time than if they slept 12 hours a night. But those 12-hours-a-night kids are like hens teeth I'm afraid.

You do have to try and relax a bit if you're not going to drive yourself into the ground.

Lie-ins - stick to them regardless of kids whinging for you or housework that needs doing. It will still need doing when you get up. Take it in turns to lie-in at the weekend. Don't be martyrs!

Tidying up - as with most things to do with children, putting in the work early on will pay dividends in the long run. Your 3 year-old can help tidy (tidy up games, races, songs, rewards etc etc). Seems a pain at the time as you could do it in half the time but SO worth it to get them into the habit. Ok they don't do a perfect job and I'm not suggesting you treat them like slaves but it's a great habit to foster.

TV - won't kill them even if for more than half an hour. I always suspect that some children who have TV restricted hugely spend longer hankering after it than those with fewer restrictions and don't develop self-regulation once they do get access to it. Disclaimer: not ALL children and it's just a theory everyone.

Finally - why are you not getting out as a couple in the evenings? Hire a babysitter. It's worth saving for and making the effort even if you're knackered. As with everything, you get out what you put in.

'we have never done CC or CIO to get them to sleep through, cos that would be wrong. Instead we spend hours rocking or waiting by their bedwide till they sleep.'

Your two children are too old for this performance. Get a grip on the sleep problem by whatever method you like best. Rocking and waiting has got to stop. You'll feel better if you sleep proper nights. You will enjoy your children again and nursery closing will not seem like a big deal.

Poisesof Poison - the reason why I would want to send the kids to nursery whilst DH is at work is because there are things that needs doing in the house he can't do whilst the kids are around. Like lots of DIY jobs . Would you judge so much if they went around to their GPs instead? We haven't got that option. The nursery is the only childcare we have. Is it that difficult to comprehend that?

sorry I shall reply to all of your suggestions later, just need to get back to doing some work now!

Just wanted to add that we don't rock DD to sleep anymore, gettign him to sleep is not an issue (although he does ask us to sit by his bedside,and I feel guilty and I do, but DH stays outside the room and goes on his phone whilst reassuring him that he is there), it's the night wakings me have to work on.

Doesn't sound like a 'rest day' to me!

I meant rock DS to sleep. DD I feed to sleep or pat her down in her cot.

ofcourse it will never turn out to be a rest day. DH is too much of a workaholic for that, but there are lots of jobs to be done, so he'll probably do those instead.

I reckon if you work up to getting DS off to sleep on his own (no need to be cruel, your DH is on the right lines, moving out of the room) then night wakings will improve. If he's comfortable falling asleep on his own then simple logic would suggest he might be able to do it in the middle of the night too.

"ofcourse it will never turn out to be a rest day. DH is too much of a workaholic for that, but there are lots of jobs to be done, so he'll probably do those instead."

well then he's his own worst enemy and only has himself to blame if he's exhausted.if he's not taking teh chance to rest when he gets it, what the hell does he expect to happen?? the 'jobs' will wait til tomorrow. the world will not collapse becaus ethe grass wasn't cut or the shelf wasn't put back up.

OK, ignoring all the stuff about your reasons for needing the time for you/your OH while the kids are in nursery, the issue (I think) is you losing childcare that you pay for, due to 'inset' or training days. If the inset days are falling on time you pay for, and you have lost a number of days paid for, then if I was in your shoes, I'd be having a look at the contract to see what it says about this. If the inset days are random, not consistent and you lose more paid for days than say, another family with similar use of nursery but not losing time due to different days used, then I'd be looking to see if you can get some redress on that (depending on the wording of the contract). If it's included in the contract i.e. the nursery will be closed x-number of days and these are non-refundable etc. then you really just have to suck it up. However, if it's not something that is mentioned i.e. these training days are simply picked based on how busy they are and change according to their buisness needs, disproportionately affecting the care you use, then I would work out the number of days you have personally lost x 2 kids, and ask to speak to the manager to see if they will see it from your POV, and maybe allow you either an extra few days to redress the imbalance, or give you back some days in lieu of payment i.e. you lose a day, you get another for free, or money off your next bill.

I think your angle would be to consider if the training days affect everyone that uses the nursery. If the answer is yes, and that's covered in your contract, then there isn't anything to be done about it. If the answer is no, then I would think about speaking to the nursery if I were you. I think this is slightly different to having bank holidays as we all know when they are, and you pick your working days according to what suits you, taking the hit if you happen to work bank holidays. With the 'inset' training days - there may well be a randomness about when they occur that might help with your arguments, and maybe get you either an extra couple of days when needed, or at least you not being charged for a service that you cannot use on those days.

If' I'm way off the mark here or have misunderstood your issue, please ignore me

Exactly Heresthethingboohoo - He definitely is his own owrst enemy. I know he is being very helpful around the house, and really is a great father too as he is fully involved in nightwakings and always puts the DCs first (to the detriment of him sometimes), plays games with them, entertains them, rather then letting them watch telly (unlike me who will actually put DS in front of the TV when I have something that really needs to be done - like the evenings cooking dinner time). He really is a wonderful father. I read on here about men who take the absolute piss when it comes to chilcare and household chores and consider myself very very lucky indeed.

We really need to sort out the sleep issues, so I guess I will be visiting the sleep threads soon.

bananaistheanswer - yes you are right, this is exactly the issue. I don't know what is says in the constact, I can't remember what it says about inset days. Most of the children there are full time, so it is less of an issue in that case, and they lose proportionally less of their paid care than someone who is part time and is always having days that seem to coincide with the inset days.

Re babysitters, you can askthe Nursery staff as most do extra work on evenings and weekends. That way you can have a night out and your dcs will be with people they know.

It's worth then checking the wording in your contract, working out what you have lost, and using that to state your case to the nursery. If all you get out of it is a 'sorry, but no' you haven't actually lost anything. It's worth at least having the conversation with the nursery manager, assuming the issue isn't covered in the contract.

Good luck with it, hope you get the matter resolved to your satisfaction

choceyes - it does get easier. I think the ages your DC are at now make life particularly hard (that was me 3 years ago). IME, it gets a lot easier. I remember my boss telling me the same thing back then - hers are the same age gap but about 4 years older.

But the other posters are right - don't make life harder for yourself than needs be.

My nursery seems pretty good about allowing you to change days around - so if they have a spare space on a different day they will let you make up the time missed if they have a training day. My DS goes there two half days and one full day per week, and this week we are away the day of his full day - so they let me make one of the half days into a full day. They obviously don't have to do this but it's worth asking.