to think this is unfair by the nursery and to feel hard done by?

[choceyes]

Well I know I probably am being unreasonable so this is more of moan that anythign I guess.

My work nursery that both my DCs go to has about 3/4 staff training days a year. Last year whilst I was on maternitly leave with DD, I sent DS 2 days a week thur and Fri. The inset days always fell on a friday, so I lost about 3 (i think)of them (also the extra bank holiday on kate and wills wedding day fell on a friday too). I thought well fair enough, they have to do the inset days sometimes and friday is their quitest day, so it will inconvinience the least amount of parents.
I am back at work now and DCs go Mon-Wed, as I work on those days.
I was asking about christmas closure and they told me that they have an inset day on Tuesday Jan 3!

Luckily my DH is a teacher and doesn't have to go back till the 5th so can look atfter them both. BUT, why should he have to? Yet again I'm paying good money for TWO DCs to lose out on a nursery day, and a resting day for DH that he really really needs. He has a very stressful job as a teacher, comes home and does household chores till about 9 and never a break in the weekend as we have 2 small DCs and he deserves the 2 days of rest he thought he was going to have.

We don't have any other type of childcare as both sets of parents live miles away so we are either at work or with the children who are 3yrs and 14 months, and very hard work.

As I said I know nurseyr is not doing this to spite me and theres nothing I can do about it, but nevertheless AIBU to feel a bit put out by this?

I appreciate you're knackered but you seem to be getting away from your own OP in which you did have a good point (should I pay for childcare when I'm not getting it on those days) into matters which are entirely in your control. You're not the only family in the world with two small children, no nearby family help and two working parents.

If he needs his rest day - why can't you take the day off to look after the children? Or why can't one of you take the children out one day at the weekend and then vice versa to give the other a break? If you want a night out, why can't you hire a babysitter, or if that's too expensive, why can't you ask a friend or join(or form) a babysitting circle?

If your back is hurting then STOP putting your 14 month old in a sling to sleep - it's all very well putting them first but not if you're damaging yourself and knackering yourself out for the rest of your life? It's not being cruel to teach children that sometimes, they are not Queen of the Universe.

We see enough of our DCs Debs75 - trust me on that!

Iggly - they are 14 months and 3yrs (today!). DS of 3 has slept through about a handful of times in all his 3 years. DD started off a good sleeper, but recently she has been waking up loads. We don't really know what to do to get them to sleep a bit better.

Life with kids is hard, sounds like the problem isn't a couple of inset days but some serious sleep issues.

YAB a bit U

DDs nursery had about 6 training days a year which was a pain, BUT we didn't have to pay for them. And it meant the staff were keeping their training up to date which can only be a good thing.

TBH it's no better when they start school. DD has an inset day next Friday and neither me nor DH have any annual leave left so one of us will take a day off unpaid. Such is life.

Surely, will yout DH being a teacher, you have some experience and understanding for the need for inset days?

But YANBU that you should have to pay for them...

we have never done CC or CIO to get them to sleep through, cos that would be wrong. Instead we spend hours rocking or waiting by their bedwide till they sleep.

it's not wrong
it would make you happier
it would stop your dh being ill every morning
it takes about a week
it's worth it

It's wrong of the nursery to charge when they are shut but it's also wrong I you to complain about the fact you have to look after your children when your husband is home anyway.

Ds nursery doesn't charge for the days it is shut and it gives the options to parents to pay half the price between Christmas and new year if they want to keep them home - most go for that option meaning more staff are able to have time off to be with THEIR families.

I can't believe someone would send there child in straight after Christmas unless they really had to!

I agree with Iggly. You sound a bit stressed from your latest post and maybe getting the sleep sorted would help. You are against cc, but what you are doing isn't working either as you both sound knackered. I don't under estimate the effects of sleep deprivation for parents, believe me.

However, why not enlist some help & support in getting the sleepless nights resolved first - there are threads on here which can help for a start.

And I may get flamed for this but maybe you need to put yourself first now and again, rather than your kids. The more happy and less stressed you are, the better for them.

Sending you out love and hugs.

shineoncrazydiamond - you are totally right. Sometimes we are our own worst enemies I feel. DH hates putting the TV on for the DCs, although by the end of the day even he will relent and we will put Cbeebies on for about half an hour.
I have tried to have a lie in, but with both DCs going " I want mummy" I find it hard to ignore them and I end up going to them. I tell DH to have a lie in, but he says theres too much work to be done usually and wakes up anyway.
I don't want to leave DD with a babysitter who is a stranger to her in the evenings. As we don't have any family nearby we hardly ever go out.

Happy birthday to your DS

Do come to the sleep threads. Things like regular early bedtimes over a week, making sure naps are ok etc etc are all options - they take time but are worth trying.

Also consider organising your time - we have a routine (ok I only have one DS) in the mornings which allows DH and I and DS to get dressed and eat. You should be able to brush your teeth! And nights - take shifts so you can each get 5 hour blocks of sleep.

You're a family - everyone should be put first occasionally, not just the kids.

It isn't wrong to charge when shut. Overheads still have to be paid.

"Instead we spend hours rocking or waiting by their bedwide till they sleep."

Have you tried the "No Cry Sleep Solution" book?

Choceyes it sounds like you're frazzled. You need a break but it sounds like there maybe things that you can do to relieve the stress on yourselves? Sorry if you already do some of these things but I understand that the best way is to prepare as much as you can the night before;

1. get all the clothes for the next day ready
2. make lunches
3. pack bags ready to go
4. bush teeth whilst having a wee

I did all this before having DD so I could enjoy time in bed!

As for keeping on top of the housework can you make a game of tidying up for your 3yo? My friend's 3yo loves helping sweep the floor and also helps her mum dust with socks on her hands. Do the DCs always need your full attention? Or can they play by themselves whilst you whizz around and do a few jobs before DH gets home giving him some time to wind down in the evenings? My 6mo is just getting the the stage where she can entertain herself for about 15 mins at a which gives me a chance to wash up, stick washing in, hang a load out or put in the dryer.

YANBU about the nursery having inset days that are always the same. Can you suggest that they rotate the days next time they plan these?

It's hard when your child doesn't go every day, and the training days fall on the days when they do go. You are losing a higher percentage of paid-for time than if your child went every day. And you were hoping it wouldn't happen, and then it did - disappointing, I know.

But your real issue is that you feel you need a break so badly. Most people don't get breaks. When my children were as young as yours, dh worked fulltime, I didn't work, and there weren't any gps willing/able to look after them, at all. So I didn't get a "break" at work, I didn't get a "few hours" off. Only the third child understood the concept of sleep. It's tough but its also very very normal. You sound so hard done by. You are honestly not getting a raw deal. Its just how it is.

Can you and dh not give each other a break? One of you takes them both out for a day? Both of you can have one good long lie-in each weekend. Or you can each have a whole nights sleep once a week (with earplugs). I know that means one of you has to do 2 children, but it is possible ...

And I agree, get over to the Sleep board and get some advice on what to do about all those hours spent rocking! Life becomes about 900% easier if you can get a bit of sleep.

A word of advice from someone further on the parenting life than you, and with more chidren, don't constantly put your children first and do things that are not healthy for you. You are not doing them any favours and will start to resent your children more than you appear to do already.

I agree with cjbarlett and afb - your job as the adults in the family is to ensure everyone is getting what they need to survive and keep healthy (mentally and physically). No one should be suffering more than they can bare just to keep another family member happy. And that includes very small children.

You need to keep you and your DH happy and well, and you need to keep your relationship functioning. No child wants ill, depressed or divorced parents if they can help it.

Ah sorry, typed too slow, thread moved on ...

Cbeebies and Earplugs are your friends, I think.

I totally understand why you are upset that nursery have shifted the goal posts when you rearranged your working week on the basis that previous insets were Fridays. If you are paying for the service, I can understand your frustration. My son is in nursery 4 days but there are no INSET days, they do training on their own time at weekends.

It is hard when you don't have family support or back up childcare, but it is, well, adult life in the world that we live in. I normally don't like the "but you chose to have kids" thing, but there is truth to it. I also find it difficult that we have no one near sometimes and have a tough of green-eyed monstrosity when I realise how much freedom our siblings with grandparents living closey by have, but you just get on and do, we wanted kids, we knew no one would be around and so we made our decision.

Being at home with the kids isn't a "break" in the sense that you might have had breaks before kids, of course not, but if you have a week's holidays for Christmas, you can surely negotiate that you both have some individual time as a "break", or you can hire a babysitter or visit relatives and get a night out. "Rest days" are a bit, well, for the infirm and unwell - are they not? I have had a few lazy weekends in the last few weeks where dh has taken responsibility because I am in early pregnancy and feeling grotty and exhausted, but there is a physical basis to that and I certainly didn't need to be cossetted away from all potential distractions and interaction with my son! It sounds like your dh is not managing work very well and needs to look into ways of relaxing and managing that. It also very much sounds as though you need to deal with the sleep issues. Sleep deprivation really reduces your ability to cope with normal, everyday stresses and it very much sounds as though that is as central an issue as the nursery payment one.

You see enough of them! is that meant as too much or just right?

You have young kids who don't sleep well, join the club! I have 4 and only 1 sleeps well, 1 is medicated to sleep and the youngest 2 share my bed and are breastfed. You need some help getting them to sleep so try the sleep threads, there is loads of different advice and if you can hack a few weeks of hard work you will have better sleeps.

I haven't had a night out with DP for over 18m and that was just a meal and movie, was 6m pregnant so couldn't do much more. The time before that was when pregnnt with dc3 and was another movie. you're not entitled to nights out, they are a nice break but not essential. Find other ways to relax and unwind with dh

thanks for all your brilliant responses. Really helpful suggestions on here.

Just a few points:

1. they can't entertain themsleves without one of us there, because DS is ALWAYS trying to hurt and annoy DD. If I go out of the room he is on to her. Can't get any work done because of this.
2. I can't get DS to help with tidying up as he is just not interested and makes more mess and things end up taking longer to get done.
3. I am still BF my DD and don't want to stop. So all her night wakings have to be dealt with my me, although occassionally she will be calmed by DH and go back to sleep. I am thinking of night weaning her, but she is small for her age and at nursery she doesn't take a bottel or cup, so might miss out on essential milk if she doesn't feed at night. She is not a big eater either, although much better than she used to be.
4. we have tried the NCSS book, but although it is very good reading, wasn't that helpful. DS co-slept with us till DD was born, and still needs to sleep with somewone esle, so he wakes up at night and DH ususally goes to his bed and sleeps in his uncomfortable bed at night. I really want this to stop as it's crappy for everybody, but don't know what to do.

Oh wow, I missed a lot of posts while composing!

Your central issue is much deeper than I feared: you are trying to be a "perfect parent" and burning out as a result.

• No TV
• No control over sleep
• Ever responsive
• No babysitter
• No time as adults away from the kids

Is your dh as perfectionist about teaching? It is not surprising if he has very high standards that he is retching from stress in the mornings. Seriously, you do need to crack the sleep issues. I didn't do cc/cio but we did work extensively on sleeping using the No Cry book and though it took ages and we still have to sit with ds for 15-20 mins in an evening, he sleeps through and we have some semblance of a life back.

And I got a babysitter. She wasn't a stranger for long. You need to have time away from the pressures of parenting and you shouldn't need "rest days" because you are so burned out from the everyday that that's what needed. Act now to prevent much greater issues down the line!

shinecrazy - we don't really spend hours with our 3yr old to get him to sleep...maybe half an hour to an hour max, so I'm sorry I exaggarated somewhat there!

How old is your dd?

RE: NCSS, you have to fiddle with it and work out what your issues are and really work at it.

What's the sleeping arrangement in your house at present? Do they have their own rooms? Are they in together?