to be sat here crying at the thought of putting my baby in nursery

[pinkyp]

my 2nd ds is 10 months, i've just gone and got myself a good job only problem is they only had full time available. I start next week. I'm sat in floods of tears looking at all the nurerys online - they dont look good enough, cant bare the thought of going to one, no one will be able to look after him like i do. What about when he's being naughty they wont love him they'll dislike him for being naughty.

I feel like running away, tempted to go get in bed and hide. Please help me get a grip.

I have just had a bath with DC4 and been thinking about Jasmine.

My question to you, Jasmine, is how do you know you are right? You seem very convinced. What is your evidence?

Nooooo BoffinMum! She is going to come back now and spout Oliver James at us!!! And probably Aric Sigman too!

Sitting in the bath thinking about Jasmine?

Get help, therapy...whatever

"I care about the babies who cannot speak up for themselves and who have no control over who looks after them."

oh give over. All babies have no control over who looks after them.

your handwringing is bordering on being un-hinged; no, you are unhinged!

Pour me a glass hobnob, she's even getting to me now. Silly, I know.
I think the 'I'm richer than yow' stuff isn't helping my tolerance levels.

Jasmine has carefully avoided any questions or points about how her nasty attitude has shaped her DC. Pinky, how are you feeling about it all now?

She's kind of like Xenia's SAHM sister that she doesn't like to talk about.....

[hgrin] Oh please MNHQ - set up a live debate between Xenia and the delightful Jasminerice

Why has nobody responded to my question? Why has maternity leave risen steadily over the years from 12 weeks to 52 weeks?

Jasmine - longer maternity leave facilititates parental choice. It does not imply that mothers returning to work before a year is bad for babies. Longer periods of leave actually makes life easier for employers. If an employee is returning after 12 weeks it's almost impossible to recruit cover. Much easier for 6 + months.

Northern, what on earth are you talking about? How does longer maternity leave facilitate parental choice?

And it is complete rubbish that longer maternity leave has been implemented for the benefit of the employer. What utter utter nonsense.

You asked for an answer, I've given you an answer. It's a complicated development with a number of cause and effect factors. What answer were you looking for? Because I'm afraid I haven't read the Trolls Bumper Book of unpleasantly obsessive attacks on working parents so I can't give you chapter and verse from that.

You've given me your opinion, not the actual reason why successive governments have increased maternity leave over the years.

Maternity leave came on to the agenda as part of the feminist campaigns from the 70s onwards across Europe and the UK has followed that broader trend although arguably has lagged behind. Maternity leave allows women to retain their place in the workplace whilst also raising a family. Maternity leave allows women to adjust to the huge changes in their lives caused by motherhood and return to work at an appropriate point for them. Longer maternity leave increases their options. When Labour (who were the government responsible for the significant lengthening of maternity leave in recent years) increased leave to 9 months paid, they also increased the notice period women must give of changes in their date of return. This is a measure which benefits only the employer. That's why it's there.

Oh come on Jasmine, you only asked that question because I pointed out that ML used to be 12 weeks- and that many of us used childcare for our babies at that age, to NO ill effect- and we KNOW that because those babies are now adults or almost adults. You didn't raise the issue of ML until I pointed out that it used to be 12 weeks- your posts are ignorant in the extreme.

I returned to work with one child at 12 weeks and one at 6 months. Many years later there is NO discernible 'difference' in outcomes. Both dc are happy and confident and well adjusted, with good relationships with dh and me, and with others. As I pointed out earlier,the only difference was that the 6 month old took a little longer to settle in childcare than the 12 week old. But that was a short term not permanent difference. Oh and having 6 months off was easier for ME (not the baby) and easier for my employer to get cover. I also pointed out that from a developmental point of view, 12 months is probably a more difficult time to start leaving a baby than 6 or 3 months due to when separation anxiety emerges - so if anything, one year ML could work against the child' settling.

Anyway, this is all a bit of a pointless argument, because you have already told us' you are fixed in your view and proud of it. And you really should stop being so defensive. Its fine for you to not want to work and stay at home. None of us working mums mind at all! Where you are going wrong is to cntinuallu bleat that mums who leave their children are selfish and somehow harming their kids. It's just utter rubbish, not backed up by any evidence (any 'research ' on this issue is notorious for being contradictory . Maybe you've been reading books on the subject such as Steve biddulph- and you haven't realised that his agenda isn't academic integrity- it's selling his book.

To be perfectly honest, what with your hilarious comment about being absolutely fine in the event of your dh losing his career or dying, because you have a wealth of investments from your previous high flying career - you are just making a fool of yourself. I suppose your investments have been magically safeguarded against global recession eh?! Other peoples properties, shares and bonds have had tens of thousands knocked off them, but hey, jasmines magically haven't. I guess in your ignorance you forgot about the economy when you invented that bit.

Seriously, stay at home if it suits you and your dh. Just stop being so obviously resentful of families who do things differently and whose children will turn out just as happy and well adjusted and successful.

What northernlurker said.

I find it hugely entertaining that everyone else's responses are apparently 'opinion' but Jasminerice's are immutable fact. It has been a while since I came across anyone on MN with such a spectacular lack of self-awareness.

On a serious note, however, you have been quite clear, Jasminerice, that nothing will change your opinion because you know you are right. That being the case, what do you hope to achieve from this thread? You aren't going to get more sure, are you? And you aren't going to change your mind, are you? And it must be abundantly clear by now that noone agrees with you or is likely to change their opinion based on your input. This presumably means that your only agenda is to try to make people feel bad for some reason. I think it should be clear by now that it is not working so why not go find another drum to bang? You might actually find a topic where your views are balanced enough that people want to engage with you.

[remembers earlier advice about disengaging and really, really should delete this post]

Yes, it's very clear that jasminerices only agenda is to try to put other women down (which she does rather badly anyway- huge levels of ignorance displayed on a variety of issues).

And people usually only try to make others feel bad when they feel bad about themselves.......

ROFL at the idea that the government had the welfare of the babiez in mind when increasing maternity leave. Jasmine, my love, it was all about the rights of women to a fair chance in the workplace. Not many women would like to return to work when their babies are 12 weeks old. For a start, they're usually still not sleeping through and women are sleep-deprived zombies at that stage, and in no fit state to function as a proper human being! Also, they may wish to breastfeed, which is tricky while working. So it's about giving women who didn't want to rush back to work a choice of working or spending more time with their babies, without having to give up their careers.

Do you have this idea about working mums being heartless dragons who pop their baby out while emailing on their Blackberries from the hospital bed, then chuck them at any old nursery at a few weeks old in their desperation to get away from baby and back to work?

Most women enjoy a year off with their babies, no denying it. But let me say it again, maternity leave laws are all about choices for women, not about babies.

Jasmierie - On the prenting board you wrote that when your own child was born you were cold, detached and nasty to them. that is obviously why you are trying to make scores of decent parents on here feel bad when they have no reason to feel bad as they are just working hard for their families. I feell sorry that you were like that with your own but there is no reason to come on here picking on others who have done nothing wrong to either you or their own children.

What Annie said - exactly! Now I really think we should all disengage with Jasminerice who clearly has issues and go and have a nice .

I've worked it out, by george I've got it Jasmine reminds me of Xenia but with the exact opposite viewpoint. It would be very interesting to see them argue, strange how I've never seen them on a thread together..

molly - bad form to track a poster's comments from one thread to another, even when they are posting ridiculous stuff.

I am actually glad Molly tracked the comment across from another thread. I had no idea Jasminerice felt so awful when her children were born, and it certainly explains why she is so fixed in her views. It's her way of making sense of things for her, and feeling a bit more like a mother. So even though she is annoying in the rather rude and dismissive way she expresses herself, underneath it all it's clear she needs to believe this and as others have said, has issues. We should bear that in mind when responding.

However now she has said her piece, hopefully she'll move on now and let us engage with the OP a bit more usefully rather than defend women in the workplace ad infinitum.

FWIW, btw, I think putting Xenia and Jasminerice in a debate together would be rather like watching a wasp and a bee struggle for the benefit of an audience. Let's not be quite so Roman in our quest for entertainment.

Also FWIW, I can't say I feel guilty or bad - I've got four children aged between 2 and 24, they are all polite, well-mannered, interesting, happy and do well at school/work, so I suppose for us the experiment has worked.