to consider speaking to social services, due to concerns for a friend and her DD?

[reallydontknowwhattodo]

I sound totally shit just from the title of this, I know. I don't feel good about even considering it, but I have genuine and serious concerns for the wellbeing of the one-year-old DD of a friend.

First of all, I want to make clear that I have tried everything I consider to be within my power to help this situation myself. I have spent God only knows how many hours trying to cajole my friend into getting help and changing things for her DD, but nothing works. Nothing ever changes for more than a day or so.

She, her DD, and her DD's father live in a house that is (to put it nicely) a great big shithole. The place is absolutely caked in dirt and animal waste, and is rarely, if at all, cleaned. I have tried in the past to clean it myself, but it needs a specialist in there and despite encouragement from several people to hire someone, they never have. This is not a money issue, they could afford to have a proper clean done.

Both mum and dad have terrible personal hygiene. They don't seem at all bothered by this, and my friend seemed to find it amusing that she had worn the same pair of jeans for four months without washing them. They reeked. The DD is always in dirty clothes, always smells bad and is left in dirty nappies way longer than she should be.

I'm afraid to say though, the above is the tip of the iceberg. The DD is rarely cuddled, her dad has very little to do with the care of her, so my friend is for all intents and purposes a single mum, and she has little patience with her DD. She snaps at her, swears at her, and will leave her crying for a long time. She has very irregular mealtimes, and is fed a poor diet. My friend regularly has outbursts relating to threatening suicide and although I don't believe she would ever actually do it, I worry about the mind of someone who would actually threaten this anyway.

I know the above sounds horrible and I feel awful and bad myself that I can't figure out how to help my friend without the assistance of SS, but I'm scared that if I don't, the LO will continue to live how she has for her first year. My friend does not see a HV, and there is no family who are suitable to help them (or in fact to approach about this), as they are either very far away or in the case of the paternal GPs, elderly and disabled (in a way that makes CC impossible).

So AIBU to actually approach SS now? I don't know what else to do.

I read that DM article today and I didnt like it AT ALL.

They set the scene by discribing all the animal waifs and strays taken in by the family

I have not heard the 'environmental autism' thing before. I am out of the adoption loop a bit though.
RAD and ASD share a lot of traits - probably one of the reasons DS didnt get his ASD dx till he was 7.

Anyway - off the subject.

You did right to bring this family to the attention of SS. There is no alternative route to help unfortunately. Its unlikely the child will be removed if the parents are willing to make some changes. I have involvement in a case that is quite similar. Child still with parents. Didnt even go on the CPR. Classed as 'child in need'.

Unless your friends refuse to cooperate at all I would think this is what will happen with your friends.

I hope it turns out well for the child and all involved.

dont report to nspcc,call council emergency duty team.google number its 24hour.

nspcc have no statutory powers
need to go to council they will assess,liaise with other agencies,act as required

'I was just horrified though that this wee girl ws born healthy and will suffer for the rest of her life because of her early treatment.'

Rhonda, get used to it. It happens all the time in the disabled world. Children with disabilities, with struggling parents are NEGLECTED by the authorities when early intervention and support could have given them the chance of an independent life.

I keep thinking about that poor little girl who died in the flat above the flat a few years back too. I am completely ashamed to say I cant remember the poor little poppets name. Also the little twin just found in Bradford who had been dead two years (!!)

In both cases people said oh yeah, I thought something was a bit odd but I didnt like to interfere. None of us are perfect parents, but there has to be a line where professionals get involved, and pooh on the carpet is way way way over it never mind the rest of it.

Absolutely fucking terrible

this is beyond a talking to from pal
a talking to is look stop being late for school, stop feeding weans shite food.a stern word about a resolvable indiscretion

this is safeguarding and follow up visit

well as a child who was abused I know all too well the consequences of people finding something a bit odd but not wanting to interfere

Have you ever actually turned around and said if you don't start looking after your child social services will take her away? You say you have tried to help but have you been honest in your opinions to her, have you actually told her how she treats her child is disgusting and harmful?

indeed,thats a harrowing but true observation,addressbook

Xpost Starlight but there are two seperate things going on there (neither is right btw)

parents who are showing their children love in difficult circumstances and not getting the help and support they need (bad but the children are still loved and will know that)

parents who arent showing their child any love or attention or even taking care of their basic needs, where the child would otherwise not have suffered from a disability (got to be worse for the child)

and sometimes I am so grateful that I have the luxury of being able to be a bit naive about both situations.

There is a line between a bit of bad parenting, a mistake but there being something basically right in the relationship between a child and parent

It is abuse and neglect

absolutely rhondajean

wilfull,purposeful ongoing lack of regard,unsafe environment,inadequate parenting - time to act

and this isnt a dig at anyone with messy house or bit harrassed at times.despite what alarmist press say LA dont dash in and snatch weans if its not a cala showhome

its the ongoing disregard and most importantly no apparent volition to change

Agree scottishmummy. I mean there are plenty of debates on mumsnet about what is the best way to parent a child. This makes you realise that love, security and physical needs met are what matters and that is lacking here.

Case no 1. This could just be a case of lazy housekeeping that has got on top of them coupled with depression. Occasionally housework will get to a stage where it is overwhelming and goes downhill from there. The occupants will often suffer depression and not notice the filth around them.

Try and offer to help clean or diplomatically say ' it's disgusting and filthy, and no good for your child'.

Case no 2. Parents have a substance (alcohol, drugs, or even internet), problem, the child is neglected in favour of these.

Speak to your friend, as a friend, first highlighting your concerns, and give her a week to rectify the situation. Monitor for at least a month and if no change or minor change and a revert to previous behaviour then contact Social Services.

They don't usually take a child off their parents straight away but will intervene in schooling and care and it is always a last option that children will be re-homed.

Thank you addressbook, I am utterly bewildered at the backlash I got for simply wanting to put the baby first.

It is very disturbing to think that there are mumsnettters on here prepared to let a baby suffer for months and months on end out of loyalty to their friend.

It is disturbing to think these Mumsnetters think they will be betraying their friend if they try and seek help for her.

It seems to me that social services are seen akin to the workhouse, not as an agency that can help vulnerable families at all but as the worst enemy, to be avoided at all costs, even if a child is at risk.

What lives are these Mumsnetters living to hate the authorities so much?

My house is mostly clean because everyone including my 5 y.o knows how to use the vacuum cleaner and mop up if there are any spills. There is lots of love and thoughtfulness, everyone helps each other out because that's how we lead our lives.

I would think this is a basic requirement for all children, to be loved, cared for, cleaned and fed.

kerry you seem stuck on this a word in shell like ear
its way beyond that
a wee word doesn't usually cover neglect or safeguarding.wee word is the get it together talk

your being obtuse here you really are

and no op isnt the perpetrator
she is an observer and a big bit emotionally torn and muddled.shouldn't be object of your derision

As stated previously the mother or father or both may suffer from pre-natal depression. even slight forms of this may leave you with dust on top of your TV or plates in the sink. If, however it has got to the stage of hazardous to the childs health then SS should be could in. regardless of the bad press they have recieved recentley they help many families in housework, family needs and will always try to help a disfunctional family get back on the right track.

called in

jug, you must know you are being disingenuous. Nobody has attacked you for 'simply wanting to put the baby first' (everybody on this thread thinks the baby's interests come first). They have attacked you for attacking the OP. Completely different; you must know that.

kerry - I don't know why you are assuming there has been no straight talking. Also slightly bemused by your implication that in most cases a bit of straight talking will do the trick. If only that were true!

OP, really hope you get a constructive conversation with SS. I think it highly unlikely that they will just go in and take the baby. I have known children in similar situations who have been categorised as in need and the family has got a package of support and supervision.

addressbook- v much agree with your 1st post - everything you have said is true and needed saying.

i am also a sw but not frontline cp. i find these threads really quite disturbing and this is the worst for a while. they start off with 'er should i call ss about xyz' which is responded to by pretty much 'oh no, just talk to your friend because ss are the enemy' and 'phone nspcc instead because they are the unscary nice middle class option' or whatever it is about the nspcc that you lot prefer over actual ss even though its actually doing the same thing only with it taking longer. does the nspcc route appease guilt in some way? is that is - baffles me.

meanwhile what is it that you think the nspcc will do that is somehow different than ss? neglect and abuse can only be addressed in limited ways - either support can be implemented and the situation and or the child is removed temporarily or indefinitely.

furthermore the weight you all put (including and especially the op) on the friendship between adults ABOVE the welfare of (in this case) a ONE YEAR OLD i find beyond disturbing.

if you care, this is a very upsetting article about tiffany wright here, which even i find gut wrenchingly heartbreaking.

lastly....an email.....that all that kid is worth? an email....