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AIBU?

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Original poster

To take back my car?

215 replies

damodad · 20/09/2011 12:41

Background, DW left me 7 months ago for someone else. I have let her use my car (that I own and pay all the running costs for) as she doesn't work and is on benefits.

Back in June we agreed that she would give me back the car at the end of October, but now the deadline is approaching she is saying that there is no way she can afford a car and that she needs it to get DS1 to school (she choose to live where she is now and it is further than walking distance from the school).

Basically I want to have nothing to do with her outside of the children and the car is yet another link between us. I can understand her point of view but I don't think that if I said "have the car for another 6 months" that in 6 months time she would be any closer to having done anything about sorting herself out.

Not sure what to do as she is saying that she will have to move DS1 school.

OP posts:
LRDTheFeministDragon · 21/09/2011 23:22

littlemiss - IMO there is nothing at all wrong with the bus. The issue is that the OP and his ex are obviously struggling like mad with each other (and wouldn't you be in his postion?!). The car is just a sign of it IMO. If there were no car, there would be something else, I think. I could be wrong, but it sounds that way - basically she says in her letter it is not possible for them to cut contact except for the kids, and that is what he desperately wants to do because the whole thing is horrible for him. Naturally.

Anything after that is a pretty minor point by comparison. However: there's the question of what his kids will make of it all (which won't necessarily be logical or mature as they are children). There's how you equate financial contributions the OP makes to the childcare commitments and loss of earnings his wife contributed while they were married and contributes now (while he now contributes some childcare too). The car is obviously being fought over mostly as a symbolic thing. Understandably the OP wants to get straight in his mind what he should do.

nolembit · 21/09/2011 23:28

GnomeDePlume the OP may be paying all agreed maintenance etc but that does not change the fact that his ex has a right to be financially independant and to be able to pay for her own car. Unless the OP realises that actually what happens to the kids is half his problem then he is disadvantaging her and the children. His ex may not want to go out and work - in which case she has no right to complain BUT if she would like to support herself then he needs to take equal responsibility for childcare by either flexible working or paying for half of the childcare costs. Childcare costs for 2 children, especially preschool, are expensive but not the responsibility of the main carer (whether it be mother or father) alone. Marriage is a legal arrangement but biological parenthood is not - you are in it for life.

Bogeyface · 21/09/2011 23:34

I wonder if the OP worked out his half of the childcare costs for his children so his ex could go to work and buy her own car, that he might not find out that he is actually getting off lightly atm! Not saying he should just hand it over, but its worth thinking about.

If she chooses not to work, a nolembit says, thats her choice and her problem if she cant afford a car, but if she wants to and he is refusing to accept his half of the childcare needs then he needs to re-think this whole thing.

Kayano · 21/09/2011 23:41

He looks after the kids half the time and pays his maintenance! The eldest is at school all week.

She could get a part time job! I don't see how she is totally unable to work. He should in NO WAY just 'give her the car' when is is paying all the family loans and can't afford it. She is entitled and emotionally blackmailing him for the car by using the kids.

Bogeyface · 21/09/2011 23:43

And where would the youngest be when she is at this part time job? Will he pay his half of the childcare for that child while they are both at work?

Bogeyface · 21/09/2011 23:45

He posted above that she has the kids while he is at work, and drops them off when he gets home, so if she was working who would look after them?

Whatmeworry · 21/09/2011 23:47

As I understand it he is paying more than the state would demand if they went down that route?

Kayano · 21/09/2011 23:49

I should imagine the OP will consider that as he has considered the impact of all his decisions on his kids and has sought advise here. They could come to
Some arrangement re youngest child re childcare and or flexible working

Surely it is best to discuss that rather than Op get into debt to fund a car for her.

But this is NOT the point here at all. It's got
Nothing to do with childcare and everything to do with the fact she can get the damn bus and the children won't dissolve fgs.

LRDTheFeministDragon · 21/09/2011 23:52

Kayano, no, he doesn't look after the kids half the time. He works 8-5. He mentioned whether or not he could cut back on his job but is saving for a deposit so that is not an easy option (though I suppose it may have to be an option if his wife does decide to get a job and he does decide to do teh childcare when she's at work, depends).

I agree with you his ex may well want or need a job pretty soon, though. But I suspect it will be another problem to be solved, rather than a simplification of the OP's problems.

Kayano · 21/09/2011 23:53

Anyway, the wife agreed to give the car back in Oct, but is now humming and jarring and using the kids as leverage to keep it but not pay for it.

No sympathy at all for her. I would like a car but you can't afford one you can't have one

ladydeedy · 21/09/2011 23:55

"Maintenance does not cover childcare, it covers basic living costs." In fact it is meant to cover around HALF of the cost of the CHILDREN's living costs. Dont forget main carer should also be contributing. And also receives child benefit and possibly tax credits. Non resident parent receives none such benefits but also cares for children during the (often significant) time they spend with their children, with no such financial benefit. Maintenance is to help give money TOWARDS the cost of bringing up the children. Not cover it all. The NRP also needs money to pay for own home and expenses etc. There will simply be less money to go round when the family breaks up and two homes are to be maintained.

LRDTheFeministDragon · 21/09/2011 23:56

Kayano - cross posted, sorry. Yes, I agree this is not really to do with the car. And I agree it sounds as if they need to work out what to do, practically, about childcare issues not just how the children get to school. Problem seems to me to be that the OP is in a horrible position, where he is grieving and the last thing he wants to do is communicate with his ex. But he has to do that in order to square things with his kids. And he is trying to do that. I don't think he is being entirely fair but I think he is trying bloody hard and he knows he may be struggling to see things straight. There's no yardstick for the non-financial stuff, so it is easier to focus on that (as his ex is doing with the car) than on anything else. But it doesn't solve the underlying problem of how they share bringing up these children.

Whatmeworry · 21/09/2011 23:56

There is a certain sad inevitability about the likely outcome here, isn't there? I wonder how one gets through to her that her actions now will force his actions soon which will lead to a much worse outcome for her later.

LRDTheFeministDragon · 22/09/2011 00:00

Btw, I don't know if this is relevant but I was thinking of it a lot - there's a statistic I read that typically, divorce raises men's standard of living by 42% and lowers women's by 73%. I think the OP here has been wanting to do the right thing and then some financially - that comes across clearly. I think what is less easy to be sure is whether his children will understand it all in those terms, and that's part of the fallout from a situation that is already very hurtful to him.

Bogeyface · 22/09/2011 00:03

I dont know many 2 parent families that can afford childcare costs, and yes she does get CTC but that will cover 70% of the childcare so imo the OP should cover half of the shortfall, ie 15% as it benefits them both. He gets his car back, she gets to buy her own and there is no argument about who gets what! But he will have to reconsider his own working arrangments which he has made it clear he wont do, he cant have it all ways.

ladydeedy · 22/09/2011 00:03

she is using the kids as a means to get at him, emotionally blackmailing him. It's like my DH's ex saying "you must pay for the children's judo lessons otherwise they will be juvenile delinquents with no sense of self discipline and it will all be your fault". Or on another occasion "our washing machine has broken down and as the parent of our boys I need you to pay for a new one so that they will have clean clothes to go to school in. You pay the bare minimum which is barely enough to feed them for one week. If you dont, i will tell them that you dont care about their health". The bare minimum which did not even feed them for one week was £400 a month btw.

Bogeyface · 22/09/2011 00:05

Lady I think the problem here is that you and I are coming to this with our own baggage, as are alot of the other posters I suspect. Shall we agree to disagree? :)

MadameOvary · 22/09/2011 00:08

Um, you made an agreement, which she clearly had no intention of keeping.
She is taking the piss.
And you actually pay for it as well???
Fuck that.
If you cant afford it, then sell the car. Fair enough they are your DC too, but you clearly do your fair share.

Original poster
damodad · 22/09/2011 08:11

My financial situation, bearing in mind that my XW has left debt free means I CANNOT afford to reduce my income and as said on here I don't recieve any help from the state.

I would love to work less and spend more time with my children. There is no reason why she can't work the two evenings a week I have the children. She doesn't have it bad by any means, what other mother here regardless of the situation has 8 nights and 6 days a month child free to do what they want.

As I have said further up this thread she has enough money to live perfectly comfortably and meet all the childrens needs, I fail to see given the situation I've been left in financially and all that I do already why, should she wish to go to work (she doesn't NEED to to live) I should contribute to childcare?

OP posts:
LRDTheFeministDragon · 22/09/2011 09:27

I take your point about your finances. I am just saying that it seems to me you are focusing on the financial stuff because the shared parenting is incredibly fraught. I'm not judging, because I would be screaming and crying instead of focusing on anything in your situation.

Re. childcare: Well, any other mother who shares childcare with her husband has more than that, that's the point. It's bad for you but not ideal for her either. She's been doing teh childcare for, presumably, a few years and both that and the fact that jobs offering two evenings are week are neither lucrative not often on offer, seem big hurdles to me. Financially you are (both) in a tough situation, she is bearing the brunt of the childcare.

I can see why you wrote your last sentence. You're writing about someone who has hurt you really badly. But the childcare is not for her, it's for your children. That's why in the end you should do it, isn't it?

diddl · 22/09/2011 09:30

Is her new partner unable/unwilling to help?

LRDTheFeministDragon · 22/09/2011 09:32

Actually, I was thinking ... if you really would love to work less, when you've got the deposit sorted and have moved to your new place, would you be able to do that? You could say you're having the car back but you will have the children x amount of hours more, then you get to see them more, and she gets a realistic shot at getting a job? I don't know, would that work?

Original poster
damodad · 22/09/2011 11:43

Obviously, the only way to do it is if I can't reduce my income is to reduce my outgoings, which I'm trying to do by reducing my rent but it's going to take at least 6 months to save the required deposit and fees etc.

Her new partner works full time and has a daughter of her own. She is also married and her XW has adopted her daughter. They have a mortgage together but are unable to sell due to neg equity.

This is all such an unbelivable mess!

OP posts:
Original poster
damodad · 22/09/2011 11:49

LRD "I can see why you wrote your last sentence. You're writing about someone who has hurt you really badly. But the childcare is not for her, it's for your children. That's why in the end you should do it, isn't it?"

The thing is if she NEEDED to work in order to live and support our children that would be different. She doesn't have to work unless she wants too. She might feel trapped and unable to work because we have a pre-school child. But I am trapped in a position where I have to work the hours I do in order to live and to pay off a joint debt. If I made a choice not to work I would get no support and would have no where to live and look after my children.
So there are no winners really

OP posts:
littlemisssarcastic · 22/09/2011 11:52

You can only do so much damodad.

How long will it be before both children are in school full time? Perhaps your XW could try to find a job when the children are in school?

FWIW, I think you are doing much more than alot of NRP's do, and are still wondering if that is enough.

What do you want to do?