To take back my car?

[damodad]

Background, DW left me 7 months ago for someone else. I have let her use my car (that I own and pay all the running costs for) as she doesn't work and is on benefits.

Back in June we agreed that she would give me back the car at the end of October, but now the deadline is approaching she is saying that there is no way she can afford a car and that she needs it to get DS1 to school (she choose to live where she is now and it is further than walking distance from the school).

Basically I want to have nothing to do with her outside of the children and the car is yet another link between us. I can understand her point of view but I don't think that if I said "have the car for another 6 months" that in 6 months time she would be any closer to having done anything about sorting herself out.

Not sure what to do as she is saying that she will have to move DS1 school.

The car is registered to me. I am the legal owner

She has no rights to it then, stop being so damn reasonable.

If it is based on 50% of time and not 50% of the nights, then why does the CSA base it on nights? And when court orders are in place it is based on nights and not the time spent with the RP and NRP. In fact a court order I have right in front of me right now states NIGHTS. You are right, shared care is not recognised by the benefits system - only one parent can claim though.

You still do have legal responsibility to get them to school but it sounds like you have delegated the getting your children to school responsibility to your XW. That is a personal arrangement and nothing to do with legal responsibility. When the children are staying at yours (regardless of if she has the car or not) she can refuse to get the children to school when they stay with you on a school night. Likelihood is she won't, because school is always in the best interest of a child. Say in an extreme circumstance; she wasn't to take them to school, and you relied on that she has legal responsibility to take them and they didn't go, it would be your neck on the line, not hers, WRT to truancy.

All that is not the issue here, but I thought I should make that clear. The car is YOURS not hers, you can get it back whenever you want. As most people have said, she has no legal right to it.

Yanbu. Get your car. She is being ridiculous, she wants her cake and to eat it.

We are going off track here, but as things stand she is the primary carer and the only LEGAL responsibility I have towards my children is to pay maintenance. If I choose to I don't have to see my children or contribute in any way other than financially.
If the children don't go to school the authorities won't be coming to me, my children don't live with me. The fact I choose (and want) to have my children 50% of the nights does not give me any additional legal responsibilities than if I had them 1 night a month.

It is true that court orders and CSA payments are based on "nights" but none of these are shared parenting where both parents hold the legal responsibilities as in a both parents living at home with their children or a court order detailing a shared parenting agreement.

The only issue would be if my actions prevented my XW from fulfilling her responsibilities i.e. if I failed to drop them off in time for her to get them to school or failed to drop them off at all.

Feel like banging my head against a brick wall here, massively hormonal day today, kids do this to you!

OK OP, seems like you have made up your mind, let her keep the fucking car, seeing as you seem to know your actions are going to impede on her fulfilling her responsibilities if you took the car back. So yes, you are being extremely unreasonable to think about even taking the car back for all the reasons that YOU yourself listed above.

That feels better

I think her letter to you was actually quite good...and honest!!

She choose to leave you as someone pointed out...was she supposed to live the rest of her life in misery then if she was no longer happy with you.......

She actually sounds quite reasonable based on that letter and she has a point....you should both be thinking of the kids and not about scoring points off each other. Agree, if you take the car back you will have to get involved with school runs sometimes to help out a bit - they are your kids after all.

Stills sounds like you are being spiteful and petty and bitter to me and you want the car back as you know it will make her life that little bit harder............sour grapes and all that!

Whilst I understand we're only getting one side of the story here and your XW could have a completely different stance on things, from what you've said YANBU at all.

If I were you I would email her and say you will be taking the car back at the initially agreed time. It is unfortunate that this will make the journey to school more difficult for her but that was her decision, and you are sure she would have considered this when moving away from the kids school. Give her the details of the bus routes, costs etc. And leave her to get on with it.

I would have had more sympathy for your XW had she not played the "think of the kids" card, when she was obviously thinking of herself by moving away. For me the walk to school and home again is an important part of the school day, and it's wonderful to have my DC's friends just round the corner, she's been quite selfish making them give that up.

Lastly, as an aside, you could offer to change the days you have the kids - for example have them every fri night, through to sat night instead of alternative weekends, as this would enable her to get a sat job (in the run up to Xmas lots of shops will need additional sat staff) and poss even a fri night one too (local pub or something?). I believe she can work up to 16 hours a week before it affects her benefits, and as you'd have the kids she wouldn't incur childcare costs.

Innocentredhead: I am going to have my car back, as I know that there is a viable option to allow her without too much difficulty or expense to get DS to school.

BettySwollocks: You obviously only know what is on this thread about my sitiuation which is a very small snapshot of the whole picture. The fact is I have paid for a car for 7 months to allow her to get herself on her feet... how much longer should I continue to do this (bearing in mind she has has 4 months notice that this was going to happen) in order that following through with a pre-arranged agreement would not be considered spiteful and petty and bitter?

Well, obv I can only go by this thread to form my opinion. If you know she is def BU then take the car back and think no more of it!

I think if the journey to school by bus is doable, it's fair enough you have the car back. I do think, though, maybe you should try the journey one time, see if it is actually working? How tired is your DS getting, and so on?

I think it was reasonable of you to pay for the car for 7 months. What do you think she ought to do now to get herself on her feet? It sounds as if she's unable to get a job with the little one at home - or is she trying and just needs more time finding one?

I agree you need a properly worked-out arrangement, not an unresolved situation that drags on and on.

I know this is not what you want to hear, but I think the elephant in the room is, you said she left you and she left you if I read correctly for another woman? That of course doesn't make any difference to how awful you must feel. But, IMO, it does suggest your ex may have been fundamentally unable to carry on a relationship with you, if she is a lesbian. I don't know what else could have happened in the end to your relationship but that you would split up. So, though it is horrible for you, it is perhaps not quite the same as if she'd left for other reasons?

Was the car bought while you were still a couple? Was it the family car or your's alone? If you bought it while still together but for your use only, what did your wife do then? If it was a family car I think it should be sold and the proceeds split so that, hopefully, two cheaper cars can be purchased. If it was bought during the marriage but solely your car then you're entitled to it back, though it strikes me as unfair. If you bought it after the marriage ended, just take it back and let your kids get the bus.

LRD - you said what I was trying to say - in such a better way :)

With regards to her working, she has enough to live on and live comfortably. If she can't afford to run a car and wishes to increase her income to allow her to do this then that is her choice. A car is after all especially in a city with adequate public transport a luxury and not everyone can afford one.

LRD: She did leave me for a woman, and whilst I understand what you are saying about the relationship being impossible to continue if she is a lesbian the fact is she would have known this before starting another relationship with someone else.
If she had come to me and said "I'm a lesbian and I can't see how this can continue and I want to move out" as hard as this would have been for me I honestly feel like I could have eventually accepted this and helped her (bearing in mind I have been more than helpful in the current situation) to set herself up and make sure the kids were ok.

Yes, I agree, a car is certainly not a necessity in a busy city.

The only point is, how is your son doing with the bus trip? If you can just check he is ok, I would do it, because you will feel better if you know. Actually, I think if you'd checked out the bus routes and so on before posting, you might have not felt you needed to post at all, since how easy that journey is is really the only issue, isn't it? There's no other reason she could justify keeping the car.

I'm sort of split on what you say about her relationship and her sexuality. I am not sure she would have known before starting a relationship ... but, on the other hand, of course it was wrong of her to cheat on you. I don't know if she would be able to know she was a lesbian until she fell for a woman though.

Sorry, I wish there were a right answer here and I could just say 'go do this, YABU' or 'go do that, YANBU'. But I think there isn't and what you are doing - trying to work it all out - is the best thing.

Btw - thinking about it, if she did choose to increase her income, would you take the preschool child for longer, or what? I mean, is it feasible she'd be able to increase her income, or is that really only a theoretical possibility atm?

Not that it makes a difference if the bus route works out, I'm just thinking about how you'd settle things if it doesn't and your DS isn't coping.

I think this all highlights how difficult this situation is really, the car is just the tip of the iceberg.

I mean the fact is if she is a lesbian then her choice to leave me was not really a choice at all. She did however have a choice to handle all this far better, to move to a house closer to DS1 school.

It's very difficult to try and remove myself emotionally and be objective with all this. From my point of veiw all I am trying to acheive is a situation where all we have linking us are the children leaving us free to carry on with our lives with nothing to cause confrontation.

If the car was purchased during your marriage, and while she was caring for the children, then I think that it isn't wholly yours. Are you divorced? If yes, what legal arrangements were made with regard to the car? If no, then she could ask for half the value of the car, as it is a family vehicle.

You have obviously mmanaged without a car for several months, which is why it seems petty for you to be taking the car back. However, if you chose to let your ex have the vehicle, then you shouldn't continue to pay towards it.

As far as her point goes, she chose to leave, you pay the CSA recommended amount of maintenance, and you are not obliged to pay anything else. If she chooses to work you certainly wouldn't have to contribute towards the cost of childcare. You do not have to contribute towards getting the children to school, as you are paying the agreed child support. As an aside, on the same subject, you could be fined if your children failed to attend school, whether you are the resident parent or not, as you have Parental Responsibility.

Is there anyone who could mediate between you? To come to an agreement about the car. I can see it becoming an ongoing dispute which will result in your children suffering one way or another.

It does that.

Yes, maybe she could have handled the move better - why did she move where she is? Cheaper, closer to her new partner? I mean, I assume there was a reason, not just trying to be a pain.

I think it's no wonder it's hard for you to remove yourself emotionally. It's obvious you are trying pretty hard (hope that doesn't sound patronizing, I mean it sincerely - I'd be a total mess in your situation).

I can see where you're coming from about wanting no links except the children. The problem is, from her point of view (though it may be wrong), the car is about the children. And the fact you didn't know how they'd get to school without it may be an issue here - she may feel you don't understand enough of the practicalities to judge whether or not she needs the car. There is an answer to this, which is checking this stuff out for yourself, but I do see why you're feeling rotten and focussing on the car first.

Do any of my questions make sense, btw? You don't have to answer, just say so, it's just I was wondering what you thought.

All else aside-what do you both need the car for?

I assume OP for work, ex for getting children to/from school & to/from OP?

So, who needs the car most day to day?

Yes, I found that disturbing myself SGM.

StewieGriffinsMom: You don't know me and have obviously taken what I have said out of context. The only reason I have written that statement is because that is all I HAVE to do from a LEGAL point of view.

The fact is I do far more than that not because I HAVE or have a moral or any other obligation to but because I WANT to.

I pay more to my XW than I have to, I have my children 14 nights a month, I looked after my children for a week and half on my own with no support (all our family live away) after I found out she was going to leave me (when I found her and her new partner in the family home when I returned home early) so she could go and stay with her mum and get her head sorted.

I allowed her to take anything she wanted from the family home to set up her new home. I helped her move house so she didn't have to pay to hire a van.

I believe I have been way beyond reasonable throughout all of this in order to keep the peace and make this as easy as possible on the children. I would consider your opinion to be a little off the mark!

None of us know you. And I take your point that there is a difference between what you're legally required to do and what you actually have to do to be a good parent.

I can see this is also a horrible situation for you and I do have a lot of sympathy.

Having said that - you haven't checked the bus route with your son. I don't know - and maybe this is because I asked the wrong questions - what your attitude would be to seeing more of the little one if your ex wanted to go out to work, or whether you'd be willing to see if your DS got tired taking the bus journey with you.

Yes, legally, you are clearly fulfilling your responsibilities and then some. But your children do not know and will not understand for a very long time why things are the way they are. No one is saying it's nice or fun or fair - but it is about your children and what is best for them.