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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not want my DS to go and live in a different country if I die?

136 replies

Zoggsrus · 18/09/2011 12:16

need to write our will, which I have been putting off as I know it will not be pretty
DH just admitted that if I were to die he would take DS back to NZ, where he is from.
Where he (DS) knows nobody and has zero family.
In England he has very close family who see him a lot and he loves, talks about constantly,
I don't want this, could I stipulate this in the will?
I can't even bear to talk to him about it at the moment

OP posts:
coccyx · 18/09/2011 12:19

you will be dead, so will never know for sure what he does!. surely it will be his choice . bizarre thing to fall out over

Shanghaidiva · 18/09/2011 12:21

Doesn't your DH have family in NZ if he is from there?

Original poster
Zoggsrus · 18/09/2011 12:22

We haven't fallen out about it. I just can't bring myself to talk about it because the thought of my son never seeing his grandparents again upsets me

OP posts:
squeakytoy · 18/09/2011 12:22

Unless it is likely that you are about to pop your clogs, then this is something that is most probably NOT going to happen.

Does your husband have family in NZ? If so then your son would have family there.

I can appreciate that this is an awkward thing for you both to discuss, and you are not being unreasonable, but then again, I dont know if you are being reasonable either. If the worst did happen, your husband would be the one who would have to make the decisions, just as if your husband died, that would leave you with the choices.

rubyslippers · 18/09/2011 12:22

You can write that you would like certain guardians in your will and ask that certain conditions are met BUT you will never know!

We did this when we chose guardians for our children in the event of our deaths when kids still 21 or below

I don't think it's worht a fall out but more disucssions

GypsyMoth · 18/09/2011 12:23

Who says he won't see his grandparents again?

It's NZ not outer space

SoupDragon · 18/09/2011 12:25

If that were to happen, your DH will be in the position of having to raise his DS single handedly and deal with all the grief. Would you not want him to do that wherever he feels best able to cope?

Iteotwawki · 18/09/2011 12:26

Does your DH have family support in NZ? Because if so, I can understand him wanting to go back with his child if he is grieving for you.

You aren't being unreasonable, wills bring out all sorts of emotion. Nobody wants to imagine their family having to get on with life without them.

I am not sure you can insist that your husband keeps your son in the UK - he is his son too. You need to get legal advice on that.

Here's hoping the situation never arises.

mumblechum1 · 18/09/2011 12:29

I'm a will writer, and the problem is that if you appoint a Guardian, that will only come into effect if your husband is no longer alive, assuming that you're still married at that time.

You could, however, stipulate in the will that you wish your dh to facilitate and encourage direct and indirect contact to your side of the family if he relocates to New Zealand. It is an expression of wishes, however, and your dh has the right to relocate if he thinks that is best for him and your son.

but the thing I'd stress is that it is extremely unlikely that you will die before your son is 18, and you should try not to get yourself tied into knots about something which almost certainly won't happen. I see a lot of clients who get so worked up about Guardianship that they end up delaying making their wills for years, which is much more likely to cause problems in the long run than making a will which covers all the stuff which will definitely matter, even if the arrangements for the thing which probably won't happen aren't 100% perfect.

Original poster
Zoggsrus · 18/09/2011 12:30

He has no family in NZ
My parents and family would fight to see DS but they are getting older and it's doubtful they could afford the trip.

I think the problem is that I don't trust DH to make selfless choices.
He wants to go back to NZ, so that's end of conversation

If anything happened to him, I wouldn't automatically return to my home town because it's not necessarily best for DS

OP posts:
ZacharyQuack · 18/09/2011 12:30

If you and your DH decided to live in NZ, and your DH died there, would he be reasonable to stipulate that you had to remain in NZ and bring up your child with your ILs?

If you die, it's up to your DH to raise your child in the best way he can. You don't get a say, you'll be dead.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 18/09/2011 12:31

YABU.... You'll be dead. DH will be able to do whatever he likes when you've gone. He may feel one way today and another way when the time comes. If you want to control everyone's lives, don't die. :)

SansaLannister · 18/09/2011 12:32

I don't think you can stipulate this, and if you could, he'd be well within his rights to contest it following your demise.

I'm part of an international couple. Part of that is working with and compromising with my spouse about what may happen if one of us is to die whilst the children are still young.

How does it mean he'll never see his grandparents again? He'll be a dual national, once he reaches a certain age, he can leave NZ for the UK and never come back.

Similarly, he could chose, whilst both of you are still alive, to move to NZ and never come back to the UK (I would :)).

Mitmoo · 18/09/2011 12:32

YOu can put your wishes in your will but they will count for diddly squat in reality, it would be for the living relations to sort out in court if they felt strongly enough about it to take on your child.

Then would a court remove a child from their father after they've just lost their mother because he wants to go back to his birth country.

SansaLannister · 18/09/2011 12:33

'I think the problem is that I don't trust DH to make selfless choices.'

What you see as selfless he may see differently. He may see a relocation back to NZ as in teh best interests of both himself and the child.

Probably best you don't die.

slavetofilofax · 18/09/2011 12:34

I can totally understand your feelings, but it is really not up to you to decide what will happen in the event of your death if you son has anothing loving, living parent.

Even if he has no family in NZ, he may find he would cope better there, which is what would be best for your ds. If you really don't think it would be best for your ds, then there is every reason to believe that your child's Father would also want what's best for ds.

You have to put what would be best for your son and husband before what would be best for your parents.

sunnydelight · 18/09/2011 12:34

The harsh reality is no, you can't stipulate this as your DH is entitled to do whatever he wants if you die as he is the father and has parental responsibility. Nothing you put in your will would be legally binding.

Look at it from your DH's viewpoint: If you lived in NZ and your DH died wouldn't you want to go home to your support network with your child? You say your DS would have zero family in NZ, do you mean he would not have YOUR family? If so you are being really selfish.

ChippingIn · 18/09/2011 12:35

I can understand why you are upset - it's not so much that he would go to NZ, but that you don't feel he would put your DS first :(

I think this is probably something you need to deal with in your relationship now as the impact while you are alive is one which is far more likely to actually happen than the impact if you die.

As for your Will - re-read what Mumblechum has written.

Original poster
Zoggsrus · 18/09/2011 12:36

Mumblechum thank you, I was hoping someone would know details.
Ultimately it will be his choice, but as long as something is in there about maintaining the relationship with my family that will have to suffice
I think I will have to make sure my family get some money too, can I do that ? We have a large insurance policy, if they get money they could travel to see him

OP posts:
EdithWeston · 18/09/2011 12:37

To be a little blunt, I don't think you can prevent this, and I don't think you should.

The only way you could begin to attempt to is if someone other than DH becoming responsible for you children. Aside from the extreme unlikeliness of this happening to any surviving parent with PR, the effect of such a step would be to strip your son of his father and normal home, just as he is grieving for his mother. Do you really want that?

Make the will. Acknowledge that if you die, it is out of your hands.

ZacharyQuack · 18/09/2011 12:37

Although you say your DH has no family back in NZ, he may still identify as a Kiwi. Are you saying that he can never go and live in his home country again? Or, if he does, that he must leave his son behind in the UK? Do you think this is a reasonable thing to demand?

CogitoErgoSometimes · 18/09/2011 12:39

I can't work out whether you're a control freak or just extremely anxious. It's one thing to want to leave provision for your nearest and dearest after you go but you seem to be wanting to write everyone's lives up for them from beyond the grave. Chances are your parents will predecease you by at least 20 years and your fears about who sees whom when will be way out of date by the time you kick the bucket.

I liked the answer the funeral director gave to his kids when they asked, when he dies, would he prefer a cremation or a burial. "Surprise me"...

EdithWeston · 18/09/2011 12:40

X-post with your last: you need to have money which is yours (which a posthumous pay-out from an insurance policy won't be) which you then leave to your parents (or a sibling, or other suitable person) specifying it is to be used to fund trips and other activities to keep your children in touch with your family. How binding this is in law I am not sure, but most people would take such a clear statement of your wishes as morally binding.

Original poster
Zoggsrus · 18/09/2011 12:46

This is a bit tricky, as obviously only I know dh.
He is very selfish, trust me.
To those telling me I will be dead, nothing I can do that's not very comforting, please don't respond with that same view, it hurts
If I was in NZ and he died I would like to think that I would keep things the same for my DS, the least amount of upheaval possible.
Not changing his home, school, family and friends and taking him away from everything he knows and loves, whilst trying to deal with death of his mother.

OP posts:
Birdsgottafly · 18/09/2011 12:49

Your DS could live with whoever they want at 14, he will have choice at the age of 10-12.

Tbh you are worrying about something that may never happen. I am widowed, my DH died of cancer, after the battle of the whole process it would have taken me a while to get the energy together to organise a move. I have a list of plans that i would do if i won the lottery, i doubt that i would bother to do them all.

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