to be so upset by my friends choice of school

[honeyfool]

I live in a largish village which is surrounded by lots of smaller more 'desirable villages'. Our local school has had a rough time lately. It has just recently come out of special measures which it had been placed in due to poor management. The teaching staff have almost entirely been replaced and with the backing of some of the community we are doing really well now APART from the fact that we are left with bad rep. Anyone who has every visited the school though, says how wonderfully friendly and welcoming it is and how happy and well looked after the children are. They are also making real academic progress. We are now out of SM with a really decent report. However, the 'aspirational' mothers still choose to send their kids to the over subscribed schools in the neighbouring villages. This reduces our funding and really erodes our community as a whole.

Anyway, long story short, one of my best friends has chosen to send her DD out of the community to a different school. I am just so upset that her values appear to be so different to mine that she would do this. I know it is down to parental choice, but I just cannot speak to her about this as I feel so strongly about it and I will say something I regret. Keep having mock conversations with her in my head. Grrrr. Want to stop thinking about it but it is making me so mad. She hasn't spoken to me about it at all.

Sorry - I know too long..... AMBU??

I think you are completely over-identifying with the school!

No i dont think the op is envious at all. Me and my friend are going through a similar situation with our dd's who are starting nursery in September. Because i go to the out of catchment area school i will be sending my DD to the private day nursery close to my school.

My friend probably wont get her dd into the out of catchment area school and would loose her position for the catchment area school if she chose the out of catchment school. She will now have to send her DD to a different nursery to my DD which feeds into our local primary.

We are both a bit upset at splitting the girls up as they have been together since birth. I have considered putting my dd into the catchment area school but really its not an option as i have 2 at the other school.

FiFi, I also went to the worst school in an area (yes, partly defined by how rough it was, no social mix, just lots of deprivation and what are now called 'chaotic lives'). My parents didn't want to remove me from the local community. We didn't fit in anyway. I wouldn't choose it for my child, tbh.

It's not 'fear of the poor' to realise that often poverty is associated with undesirable outcomes. Poor people also realise that, which is why lots of poorer immigrants and w-c people try to go to the best schools around to lift them out of their current circumstances.

I wouldn't care if my friends sent their child to Eton (in fact, I'd be delighted for them if that was what they wanted). I think everyone takes this way too personally.

But OP's not explicitly making a political point - although I guess you could argue that issues of community and education are always political - I think it's just to do with friendship and things you put some effort into and how you feel when others don't value that effort.

Allin - I totally agree. We have 4 primarys all within walking distance of my house. 2 are good, 1 satisfactory and 1 has measures in place. I agree, i did not want my kids to go to the primary i went to which is failing and was the worst in the whole LEA. Most of my friends are happy to send there kids there.

What happens is some parents on the council estates want to send their kids to the better schools. The parents who went to that school mainly just want to choose the closest school regardless of the ofstead rating. They went there and all there friends did and kids do.

I was taliking to our headmistress about it. She said she doesnt want 82 people applying for her school. She has to deal with all the appeals and upset parents. She just wants the other schools to improve so all the kids get the chance to go to a good school.

Our school always used to just take the kids from the private estate. She said some of the kids and parents from the counciil estates are lovely and all the kids do as well as the others given the opportunity.

Its such a shame when the school is poorly managed. My catchment school went from poor to good after a change in head teacher and most of the kids come from the council estate. Ours is bordering on oustanding but the catchment is not far behind.

Wow, if a friend commented on my choice of schools I'd tell her exactly what has been said up thread - that it has NOTHING to do with her! I am stunned you have the brass neck OP to think this is something that concerns you

She's trying to do the best by her child. Her first loyalty is to her child, not you. I appreciate that you feel that educating your own within their community is the best for them as it strengthens that community, but she doesn't about her own. That's her prerogative. You need to respect that.

I'd always put my child ahead of a village school, too. It's less of a moral issue to me than it is you as I wouldn't feel loyalty geographically that way - I've moved a lot. People differ.

"The reasons: because the right kind of people don't send their children there. Because we have some ex local authority housing in the area. Because the other school is just supposed to be better. And finally, because her child is too clever for our school (and likes the other uniform better)."

Did she actually say that, or did she say that the kids at the other school arrive with higher starting points/challenge kids with higher attainment more successfully? Because if she said as you described she's a raging snob and that would bother me. But if he child is quite bright, and OFSTED have identified that the local school is not meeting the needs of the brighter kids, then I have more sympathy. Boredom is a real disincentive to learning.

The problem is I guess that OP feels (not unreasonably) that the friend is commenting on her choice of school - and her as a person, with all this 'right sort of person' business.

It is of course the friend's prerogative, but I still totally see why OP feels as she does, and I think her actions have been commendable. If everyone did what OP has done, things would work: if everyone did as the friend has, they wouldn't.

I have worked at a school in SM and coming out of SM.. The pressures on teaching staff and students are huge- I would not be happy to send my DD there TBH. There is a reason a school is in SM and the damage to reputation is massive.
I find it interesting how people give the benefit of doubt to public sector organisations and not private sector- for example, if a company was found to have serious weaknesses , would you take your business there?

As I have said earlier in the thread I believe your choice will be vindicated. The school must be working its socks off to get from special measures to a 'good' ofted report. You are clearly part of that progress and value the school, kids and community.
If your friend said what she said to you she openly believes the school plus the kids and parents are 'not good enough' for her precious.
A shame as it clearly is NOW a GOOD school. Her loss.
YANBU!!!!
[By the way - if an ofsted report comments on 'bright' kids not getting enough support they sure as hell will be getting support after the report in an improving school!].

It was found to have serious weaknesses - now it's getting the same Ofsted rating as the snobby school!

I haven't had a chance to read through all of the new comments yet, but thank you for all the interest in this thread - it has certainly made me think and I will try to in a minute.

Joric I was just wondering what you think should happen to schools in SM? I am assuming that you don't think your child deserves more than everyone else, just the same, yes? In which case which children should attend schools in SM? If everyone took their child out what would happen? Just close the school and hope that the surrounding schools don't buckle under the weight of all the new arrivals? Or pull together and try to make it work. Genuinely interested as to what you think should be done with 'failing' school. WHICH if I can just point out our school is not any more

I'm guessing someone who would think that would think that the SM school should 'up its game' or else close, and the 'good' schools should be allowed to expand. Pace Michael Gove.

Except it is 'upping its game' and the snobs still won't touch it with a bargepole.

Bad reputations are hard to dispel. Keep plugging away Honeyfool promoting your GOOD local school. Steer people to the OFSTED etc.
Unfortunately down right snobbery is hard to deal with.

The schools which are good in my area only take 29 kids per year so most people wont get in their choice of school anyway.

Even the one with SM has people applying as it is closer to them. I dont think any school should get to the point where it is failing and people should ne able to choose wether or not they wish to send their kids to a failing school. I personally wouldnt. The one with SM in my area has been bad for years.

OP I agree with your choice but you are overeacting to your friends choice. She is acting as any concerned parent would and is doing what she believes to be the best thing for her child. YAB totally U to be annoyed with her for that.

Honey, my old school is becoming an academy in Sept. A school close to where I am now has closed and students now go to other schools in area. Schools are put in SM as a last resort, most seriously failing schools are put in notice to improve before it gets to SM.
Yes schools can improve dramatically, a new head and SMT can save a school but the turn around can take a long time. one child has 5 years at a 7-11 school and it can take that long for the school to recover. One of the reasons people opt out is fear and this is understandable in yy opinion as a child has one chance. Schools where parents are taking pupils away struggle in the same way a private sector business would suffer if it's reputation weredamaged. It may be your school is well on it's way to recovery, or the new head may be expert in PA. I have no way of knowing, you have to go with your gut feeling.
A good indicator- at open evening , I am asked what it is like to teach there - my answer is 'I love it' - happy staff, happy children.

PS if I knew the answer to your question - what to do with schools with a damaged reputation I would be working in government!!! :)

If I had a choice between a school that had just come out of special measures and one that a lot of people I knew were using and it was well thought of, what would I do? Errr let me think.......

OP - don't take this personally. She's made her choice and you've made yours. Nothing wrong with either of the decisions. Different schools suit different children - and parents.

Also, it is commendable to pull together to try and make the school work. Out of fear or other reasons, many are not prepared to do this and will look elsewhere. I think instinctively parents look for the best for their children and if they consider one school to be better than another they will inevitably choose the one they prefer. You are doing this by choosing your school, your friend is doing it by choosing hers.

Firstly I really don't get why you're so concerned that your friend made different decision to you - as some posters have said what you do with your children is your business and what she does with hers is her business. Secondly I dont' see anythign wrong with wht she's doing - she's doing her best for her children as she sees it which i what we all do.

I'd find it bizarre to criticise her decisions =- perhaps she's on a thread somewhere else worrying about your kids being sent to your preferred school because of their mothers political (with a small p!) beliefs

malcontent thank you for holding the fort while I was away.

niminypiminy - what you said!! Could not agree more!

valiumredhead I have never commented on my friends choice to her. I was upset, but have kept that to myself. I think we have clearly established-and I have accepted-that IABU to question her choice, albeit not directly to her face, but thanks for pointing it out to me again .

I think the discussion has moved passed that point and on to why people choose different schools and what happens now. If we all just walk away from the schools in SM what happens then? If the community doesn't get behind their school what happens? A school that has been there and served the community for 125 years just goes down the pan because some misguided governor hired a really crap head teacher 3years ago?

but if other schools are serving the community better then maybe thats it. Just because something has been there for a long time does not mean it might not be good to change things...

Also, and not being involved in education I dont know but how does 1 crap hteacher ruin school in 3 years to extent your saying all teachers have been replaced now .. how come all teachers suddently deteriorated so much in their abiity too in 3 yrs that they need to be replaced - or maybe I misread.

Think the problem is that once school goes into sm then really damage is done, and reputation may be hard to recover. Possibly whats needed is quicker reactionto problems when they arise to avoid situation getting so bad...but how you'd do that I dont know.

i think your school needs to have a proven track record academically to attract all the local folk. school needs to gain the trust of it's locals really and that will take time and lots of effort of schools part. i think its a case of winning people over one by one.