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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think that 11 year old primary school children do not need this level of sex education?

214 replies

ZhenXiang · 15/06/2011 21:02

Friends DS came home with a leaflet that had been handed out at school (aimed at girls, but he took it because of the content). It contained:

-Advice telling the girls to get a mirror and examine their genital area plus -picture of said area
-Information about discharge and STI's
-Information about going further with your boyfriend and masturbation
-Advice about contraception
-Advice and information about homosexual relationships
-Pictures of people in fairly intimate positions
-Information telling children that if they tell a doctor or a teacher that they are having sex that they are not allowed to tell their parents

Given that the law is that children should not be having sex until 16 and that this is a primary school I was a bit shocked that this information was being handed out without the parents knowledge. I would expect that this sort of content would be dealt with in secondary school in year 8 or 9 (that was when we had it when I was at school).

What do you think?

OP posts:
drivingmisscrazy · 15/06/2011 21:41

MoreBeta I don't want to get into a fight about this, but most gay people I know (including me) knew that they were gay by the age of 11. None of them had the confidence, courage or self-esteem to be sexually active until their late teens or early 20s. It would have been enormously affirming to have seen this in a leaflet when I was a kid. There's no reason why it should be 'even homosexuality' - gay people do not mature later sexually than straight people!!

fearnelinen · 15/06/2011 21:42

I don't think

MrsKravitz · 15/06/2011 21:42

Do you not agree children should be taught about relationships as well?

FrameyMcFrame · 15/06/2011 21:43

what drivingmisscrazzy said

ZXEightyMum · 15/06/2011 21:45

Blimey, DD came home from the Puberty Talk yesterday with some vague mention of eggs and blood. I had to remind her about our talks / books read / diagrams drawn last year Hmm Grin

As for the other stuff, she watches "Glee" and has, I think, a fairly healthy idea about same-sex relationships. One I am happy about for now I think.

drivingmisscrazy · 15/06/2011 21:45

or if they were sexually active it was because they got themselves into situations that they couldn't handle because no-one had ever told them how to keep safe, or that consent issues applied to them

fearnelinen · 15/06/2011 21:45

Can I also point out the gay bashing that goes on in primary schools. DS (11) has recently discovered that a girl in his school has 2 mums, he is so pleased because finally he has someone to stand against them.

His godfather is gay and he just won't have people using gay as an insult, they fight them together now.

We have to educate.

FrameyMcFrame · 15/06/2011 21:45

Yes of course they should but the facts about going further with boyfriends are very important.
Being able to give consent for some things and not for others, knowing what sexual activities can pass on STIs, all this is information kids should be armed with in order to make their decisions

meditrina · 15/06/2011 21:45

fearnelinen: her post part way down the thread at Wed 15-Jun-11 21:16:26 says that it is. I checked the site.

It is definitely published for KS3 and KS4.

lenak · 15/06/2011 21:46

Suggesting that just because a child has read or been told about sex, they will instantly go out and do it does a massive disservice to them. If a child were to do that it would be more of a reflection of their upbringing than of what they have been taught in school.

All of the evidence points towards early education reducing teen pregnancy rates. As an example, the Netherlands has one of the lowest teen pregnancy rates in the world. This is a description of their sex ed policy:

Subsidized by the Dutch government, the ?Lang leve de liefde? (?Long Live Love?) package, developed in the late 1980s, aims to give teenagers the skills to make their own decisions regarding health and sexuality. Nearly all secondary schools provide sex education as part of biology classes and over half of primary schools discuss sexuality and contraception. The curriculum focuses on biological aspects of reproduction as well as on values, attitudes, communication and negotiation skills. The media has encouraged open dialogue and the health-care system guarantees confidentiality and a non-judgmental approach. The Netherlands has one of the lowest teenage pregnancy rates in the world, and the Dutch approach is often seen as a model for other countries.

I've highlighted what I think the key elements to that are.

Oh for a media that encouraged open dialogue rather than our repressed Daily Mail style outrage at the thought that our children should be told about sex before they actually start getting curious and doing it.

ZhenXiang But that is your choice vigglewiggle, what about all the other parents who would not choose that for their child, who were not even given the choice? What about children whose parents do not talk to them about it, so they have no one to discuss the questions that reading material like this will raise?

Then they are not doing their job as parents and it is right that the school should step in where they are failing.

In my experience, the girls who I know who either got pregnant when they were teenagers or took risks were the ones with parents who never talked to them about sex and were particularly repressed about it.

My mom and dad were not easy to talk to about it but ensured that I had access to reading material from about the age of nine along with a healthy dose of fear about what the consequences would be if I came home pregnant. Their view, which they made very clear, was that I had been given the information, I knew the biology and I knew how to access contraception if I wanted to have sex. If I was stupid enough to disrespect both myself and them, then I would be in serious trouble.

I was horrified when I found out that my two best friends, whose parents were of the "never talk about it" variety were taking stupid risks because "You couldn't get pregnant the first time" or "You couldn't get pregnant while on your period". I nagged one of them into getting the pill myself. Her mother went ballistic when she found out she was on the pill even though she knew she was sleeping with her (long-term) boyfriend. God knows what she would have done if she had come back pregnant.

StuckInTheMiddleWithYou · 15/06/2011 21:46

The level of sex education in schools has been gradually increasing over the years, can we all agree on that? Yes? Ok.

Teenage pregancy rates:

www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=951

It has almost halved since 1973.

MrsKravitz · 15/06/2011 21:47

You cant do one without the other. What is missing is the relationship, self esteem amd empowerment stuff, These should be done in combination, not just hurling a "how to" manual at kids. That is my point.

LordOfTheFlies · 15/06/2011 21:48

My DS(11yo) Yr 6 has his Sex Education class tomorrow.
I've always made it a rule to answer any questions honestly and within his level of understanding -(and DD 9yo) Even if the questions are asked in the checkout queue in Sainsburys and the till operator gives me that "Yes mother,answer that!" look
He's fairly savvy but picks up a load of rubbish from his schoolmates.
So I'll probably be downloading these leaflets to browse.

fearnelinen · 15/06/2011 21:49

Yep. Fair enough. That very clearly states aged 12 or above and so, it was therefore innappropriate. YANBU (and thanks medtrina for sorting that out!)

I would complain but I also maintain that education is vital. It will be interesting to know if there are any adverse affects from imparting that info to the kids.

MoreBeta · 15/06/2011 21:50

drivingmisscrazy - I don't really understand your point and don't want to fight either. Maybe my son is gay, maybe he isn't. I was trying to think about why he had raised AIDS as an issue. Was it because he wanted to know about it in connection with STD or was it because someone had told him (probably in the playground) that it was a disease common in homosexual men and he wanted to know about that?

He didnt say why he wanted to know.

Khara · 15/06/2011 21:50

When my ds1 had sex ed. in Y6, we were told it was happening (although not in so many words - it was called "Y6 Growing Up Day" or something similar) but we were not invited in to view any of the material beforehand. Apparently they were using new material that year and the teachers were really quite shocked by how much detail the video went into.
I was ok with my ds being taught this but very surprised that we parents weren't kept more informed about exactly what information was being shared.

magicmelons · 15/06/2011 21:53

YABU,

I work in teenage sexual health and from experience Sad these children need these things drummed into them at an early age. By 14 alot of these children will be having sex.

In countries where sex education is taught in detail from an early age the teen pregnancy rate and sti rate are a lot lower than the UK. It's no good burying our head in the sand, 40,000 teenager became pregnant in 2009 and 50% of these had terminations.

I would LOVE to keep my dc children as long as possible but there is nothing that will make them grow up faster than a unwanted pregnancy or a STI.

MirandaGoshawk · 15/06/2011 21:55

OP, I agree with you.

Of course there should be information, but at that age it should be of the "When Mummy and Daddy love each other very much...." variety, not "This Is What You Do"

I have a friend who is a TA. She sat in with some PSHE classes with Yr 7, where the dch were told, among other things, How to Pleasure your Partner. Some of the boys were giggling at the back, obviously too immature to take it seriously, and there was one SN boy for whom she felt it wasn't appropriate. She offered to take him to the Library for the duration of the lesson but was told No, it's compulsory.

drivingmisscrazy · 15/06/2011 21:56

MoreBeta - I think the conjunction of 'even homosexuality' and 'where did childhood go' led me to think that you were implying something that you clearly weren't, given your subsequent post. Apologies.

magicmelons · 15/06/2011 21:57

Oh and i would like to point out that sex is normal, we all do it. What children/teens need to be taught is how to have mutually respectful normal affectionate sex rather than the crap they are subjected to by learning about sex from media, porn mags etc.

Mahraih · 15/06/2011 21:58

YABU.

A couple of girls at my school were having sex at 12. So 11 is the perfect time to tell them these things.

And you pick up so much bollocks from other students - it's like chinese whispers - so detail is great.

Agree with magicmelons. It would be lovely to think they are innocent little fawns until they're 16, but just not the case. They need to be taught.

magicmelons · 15/06/2011 21:59

MIRANDA youu think that children with SN will never grow up to be adults with SN who have sex Hmm

MoreBeta · 15/06/2011 22:01

drivingmisscrazy - OK I understand the confusion now - sorry for the unintentional conjugation on my part. As you were. Smile

psiloveyou · 15/06/2011 22:06

I have just watched the sex education dvd shown at DSs school and aimed at 9-11 year olds.
Most of it was very good. Puberty, periods, feelings all covered very well. I was a little shocked at how explicit the section on intercourse was. I don't think 11 year olds need to be told exactly how to have sex (with diagrams). Also I thought they glamourised sex with the narrator saying that during sex the couple will feel a lovely intense feeling known as an orgasm. There was no mention of the probability of early sex with a unsuitable partner being disapointing, and the effect inappropriate sex could have on self esteem ect.
Also childbirth, we had a happy couple with baby popping out seemingly painlessly.
I think if children of this age are going to be told about sex and childbirth in such detail they should get the whole story. Sex can be crap and having a baby hurts like hell and has an effect on the rest of your life.

I took the dvd home because I wanted to watch it before ds so I could be prepared for questions. He watched it with me. The result was we had a great conversation about sex and substance misuse that we probably wouldn't have had otherwise.

faverolles · 15/06/2011 22:07

I've had a quick look at the 4girls and 4boys leaflets. I think huge part that is missing is (as MrsKravitz pointed out) a lack of relationship and self esteem advice. It glosses over the fact that every girl should know that no matter what point in proceedings, if she wants to stop, sex, or the run-up to sex should stop, no questions.

In the boys equivalent, this is completely glossed over, it says something like "if your partner is not ready for sex, there are many
other things you can do which feel great". No mention that should his partner say no, he is in danger of being guilty of rape if he doesn't stop. I know this sounds heavy handed, but at what point does this become important for boys to learn?

I would be happy for my dc, at the appropriate age to receive these leaflets, and I am happy to fill in the blanks, the glaring ommissions regarding self respect and respect for others, but how many parents will be too squeamish to talk to their dc, so this vital lesson will be missedby many.