To be annoyed by my sisters talk of sorting out my sons behaviour?

[twinklingfairy]

I have a 2.5 yr old son who is a wee monkey who is in a habit of saying no, then stepping forward to do what he just said he wouldn't.
When he is on the loo or wants to be naughty he says 'you go find granny/sister or daddy'

Sis tries to assert her authority over my children everytime she sees them, has done the same with DB girls too. To the point of ruining the enjoyment of dinner for them but being either unaware or unconcerned.

On Sunday she decided that my DS ought to tidy up the CDs that he scatters around Granny's music room everytime we go there to play (we normally tidy up when we leave)
She decided to tell him to do it just because she wanted him to. To which he replied No.
So she told him again, same response, so she tried threatening tones, he told her no, go find granny.
She then gives up realising that it was a pointless battle of wills she was only going to lose and anyway, was it that important? Not really.

So she comes through to me, with her smile, to tell me about what he had done (refusing to do as he was told) and that he had been cheeky to her.
She said that she would have had him on the naughty step for that and that his cheekiness would just not be accepted in her house.
I then end up in an hour long discussion with her over discipline styles during which she tells me she would have a stronger hand, that I have always been soft on my boy (much harder on my older girl), that if she had him for a week she would have him sorted out and that he will get bad reports in school for his cheek.
I said I preferred to think of his cheeky nature as a developing personality that I believe will be pleasant not rude.
And that, when she has children, she will not be saying what she is now and that if she does try to have a firmer hand, her children will be frightened to move for fear of a row. No one could keep up the level of intensity that she intends to have.

My boy will do as he is told (for the most part), he is not rude to strangers and if he is, come on he is 2!
If he doesn't you can normally do the 1, do that, 2 do that 3.... and he will do that for fear of the naughty step which I use regularly. As regularly as I feel in necessary.
Yes I probably am softer on him, but he is a different boy who would scream for hours if he felt inclined. There is only so far you can push it before he ends up spending all day on the step. So I pick my fights.

Arg, see, I am defending myself already!

The right etiquette when someone perceives a friend's or relative's children have misbehaved (she may feel that scattering the CDs and not tidying up straightaway is misbehaviour) is not to attempt to discipline the child there herself (ie she asks the child to tidy up, and he doesn't), is to inform the child's parents that she doesn't want him to do that but she hasn't been able to get the message across. Then the parents either get the child to tidy up or tidy up themselves. It is presumptious for a relative to say "you are not disciplining him right, this is what I would do" (unlesss we're talking about something really serious like bullying, violence, etc).

I think it is reasonable that if she feels the CDs might be a trip hazard, and he continues to do it and the parents don't act, for her to ask the parents and tell the child that the objects can't be played with any more. But if parents continue to leave a friend or relative's home in a mess despite being asked, one has to ask whether they are showing sufficient respect to their hosts.Some parents tidy up in their own house immediately (my BIL does and insists his kids do), others tidy at the end of the day (like I do)....but because we are used to "mess in the daytime, neatness after bedtime", it doesn't mean we should subject our friends to the same at their home, unless they have said it is completely fine by them.

so it seems 2yrs old is the time when it becomes clear that our kids are either going to become unquestioning robots or hooligans. i'm in trouble then.

No, I genuinely haven't Hully. Your view is completely alien to me.

I know of plenty of perfect parents that think their way is the right way and can't wait to tell other parents they are doing it the wrong way

You only have to look on MN to find loads of them

No, naturalbaby, but it is an age where children can be taught as the carers mean to go on. As stated above, there is no magical time when the switch gets turned on and they start to understand, it's learned behaviour.

Hee hee - natural baby. You're right. This is all getting a bit hysterical isn't it? Child will be fine as he obviously has a loving attentive Mother who is able to think for herself and willing to stand up to well meant interference. Sisters will be fine as these things really do blow over. Bet OP's sister has kids and laughs at her old self.

It's hard to tell who you are referring to usualsuspect, but I haven't seen any of those on this thread, on either side of the debate. :)

Learned behaviour, exactly.

"It takes a village to raise a child" is one of the oldest proverbs so I don't understand the breast-beating at the Sister asking him to tidy up.

I'm off too. Good luck OP!

That was the exact phrase I was trying to think of early Pinot!

early earlier.

I really can't understand why people are insinuating that twinkling's boy is about to become an out-of-control child He was playing happily then unnecessarily interrupted by his aunt, he said no (which is normal for a 2 year old) but didn't have a tantrum or anything, and the sister gave up because she knew there was no point in what she was doing. I have a absolute ton of cousins (Irish family) and if I'd said the same thing to any of them at the age of 2 they'd probably all have either ignored me or said no, because I'm not their mother or their teacher and they wouldn't really be motivated to just do as I say for no good reason. That's pretty normal IME, and all those cousins have grown up to be normal well behaved children and adults. If he'd thrown a CD at the sister or had a screaming fit then there might be some concern over his behaviour but calmly saying no is pretty good I think especially seeing as he was justified in not wanting to tidy up.

And I get house for the perfect parents comment!

Actually, when my DS was 2.5 year old, he and his friends understood "put the CDs into the box" very well and would do it, but not the words "tidy up". They are old enough now (at preschool age) to understand "tidy up" to mean "put them back where you found them". It may have been the sister's choice of words and her tone. Also, if he is afraid of his aunt, he may not have heard what she said properly and just thought she was having a go at him.

Actually whether the CDs are cheap or not is immaterial - you should respect others' belongings, and at that age they are beginning -and some already have - understand that belongings can get broken if handled roughly. Of course, if granny had told him "of course you can play with them and chuck them about", then the problem is not disobedience but mixed messages from 2 grown ups.

Ds1 always had to have a packet of crisps/sweets (i know,i know bad mother) opened 'upside over'.

DPs Mother being a control freak would open them the 'right' way up...

Every bloody time.

Cue DS refusing to take them from her

It drove her bonkers and guess what ? he grew up and got over it.

There are people who just have to be in charge.

Actually Tidy, we seem to be on the same wave level here. I wonder if thats because we have similiar families - I was and am pleased when someone else disciplines my kids - for one I think it reinforces that Mum isn't just a grumpy cow, and 2, it saves me getting up and doing it. Particularly when we go (regularly) to my parents or inlaws, we all muck in and as and when a child needs a word, the aduly closest deals with it.

Thats a normal family to me. Hence why I think your sister was fine to put in her twopenneth.

obviously tidydancer, and i frequently remind my 2yr old that when i put my foot down and say no, i mean it and i expect him to respond appropriately. but as the owner of a child who gets very emotional and confused (as surely every 2yr old does?) i pick my battles every hour of every day

there are plenty of times when my cheeky monkey looks up and declares 'nope, no no no' and i have to leave the room and laugh at the cheek of him. i am proud of him standing up for himself, he will not be a pushover but he will respect others - adults and children. with the benefit of a 3yr old who has just gone through this phase i can see i'm obviously not failing as a parent, i can discipline appropriately and respectfully and he will not turn into a hooligan.

I called bingo on ' It takes a village to raise a child'

Your sister is a big fat, ego-tripping PITA.

She has no idea that you can't play the sergeant major with small children, and I think she is in for a rude comeuppance if ever she has children. Children that age don't do that 'this instant' thing. Mine never did and they are not delinquents nor anything close. They always hated to be interrupted while playing and went on from one activity to another throughout the day. We did a tidy up twice, after lunch and before dinner, or the place would look like a bear garden.

There is no way your DSIS should be telling you how to deal with your child. There is no way your mother should be engaging in chats with her about your methods either, while at the same time laughing with you at her other daughter's ridiculousness. Your mother needs to either refuse to get involved with either one of you here wrt parenting or she needs to lay down the law in her own house when cds or whatever get scattered around, or she needs to tell your sister to zip it. She and your dad need to assert themselves at their own dinner table in their own house. This situation has arisen between you and your sister because your parents won't assert themselves.

Your child sounds like a fairly ordinary (maybe a bit on the spirited side) 2 year old.

If he says no and then does what he is expected to do then it is probably a phase. 2 year olds love the word no. It represents power to them. They hear it from adults and they see its effects -- it is like magic.

OTOH, I would be inclined to stop the mixed messages and insist on respect for all CDs because most of them are not toys. A 2 year old may well think they are all the same and destroy something someone else holds dear if he is allowed to scatter (scratch, break) CDs on one environment. I would also not let the No thing go unchallenged. Maybe not in the drastic way your sister has in mind, but you could say 'We don't say No to mum', right down at his level and in a serious voice, if it keeps up when he is approaching 3. He is going to encounter teachers, etc, who will not find it initially as easy to dismiss as you do.

You can praise him for being co-operative, praise him for being tidy, praise him for helping tidy up when asked -- it doesn't all have to be No, No, No and the naughty step. You can also have him play outdoors as much as possible.. If he is throwing things around or scattering things, maybe he needs an opportunity for more boisterous play outdoors.

Your son sounds pretty normal and your standards of discipline are up to you, but the part that rings alarm bells with me is the comment that you are harder - or at least considered harder by your sister - on your older daughter. My sister is the same: terribly strict on her obedient, compliant daughter while allowing her son a far freer rein which leads to poor, if normal behaviour and impacts negatively on the little girl.

It's the difference in treatment that is so irritating or distressing to family onlookers. The distinction between the definition of acceptable behaviour between boys and girls seems common to me with girls always expected to behave. A description of little girl's behaviour as "cheeky" would be unlikely to raise an indulgent smile. Do you decribe your daughter this way when she says "no"?

This might not apply to you at all, but regardless of your sister's approach, please examine the way you respond to issues of discipline with your son and daughter and satisfy yourself that she is not feeling frustrated with you and sorry for your daughter.

Yeah Bucharest! I agreed with you up thread and you held back the foaming ver well

Was your family situ as I described too? I am wondering if thats it.

I'm grateful when someone disciplines my DS (DD actually is too young to be disciplined or be naughty!). It's not because I'm some feckless lazy sod who can't be bothered to parent her own child, it's because DS will learn to better respect by having his rules and behaviour reinforced by other adults. None of my family or friends are afraid to tell him off if he needs it.

i'd love to stay and chat but have 3 hooligans to round up and entertain.