To be annoyed by my sisters talk of sorting out my sons behaviour?

[twinklingfairy]

I have a 2.5 yr old son who is a wee monkey who is in a habit of saying no, then stepping forward to do what he just said he wouldn't.
When he is on the loo or wants to be naughty he says 'you go find granny/sister or daddy'

Sis tries to assert her authority over my children everytime she sees them, has done the same with DB girls too. To the point of ruining the enjoyment of dinner for them but being either unaware or unconcerned.

On Sunday she decided that my DS ought to tidy up the CDs that he scatters around Granny's music room everytime we go there to play (we normally tidy up when we leave)
She decided to tell him to do it just because she wanted him to. To which he replied No.
So she told him again, same response, so she tried threatening tones, he told her no, go find granny.
She then gives up realising that it was a pointless battle of wills she was only going to lose and anyway, was it that important? Not really.

So she comes through to me, with her smile, to tell me about what he had done (refusing to do as he was told) and that he had been cheeky to her.
She said that she would have had him on the naughty step for that and that his cheekiness would just not be accepted in her house.
I then end up in an hour long discussion with her over discipline styles during which she tells me she would have a stronger hand, that I have always been soft on my boy (much harder on my older girl), that if she had him for a week she would have him sorted out and that he will get bad reports in school for his cheek.
I said I preferred to think of his cheeky nature as a developing personality that I believe will be pleasant not rude.
And that, when she has children, she will not be saying what she is now and that if she does try to have a firmer hand, her children will be frightened to move for fear of a row. No one could keep up the level of intensity that she intends to have.

My boy will do as he is told (for the most part), he is not rude to strangers and if he is, come on he is 2!
If he doesn't you can normally do the 1, do that, 2 do that 3.... and he will do that for fear of the naughty step which I use regularly. As regularly as I feel in necessary.
Yes I probably am softer on him, but he is a different boy who would scream for hours if he felt inclined. There is only so far you can push it before he ends up spending all day on the step. So I pick my fights.

Arg, see, I am defending myself already!

[PinotGrigiosKittens]

Why do you disagree on the village proverb usual?

[usualsuspect]

I don't disagree with it ,I was waiting for it to be trotted out

I had no problem with other family members disciplining my children ,when it was warranted

But I don't think in the ops instance it was ,and if anyone tried to tell me they would sort out my children's behaviour ,especially if they were childless I would tell them to fuck off

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

twinklingfairy... this was the bit of your post that made me think that your Mum might be in agreement - either that or trying to keep the peace between you: I have walked in on discussions between them and my mum which they were unaware that I caught the gist of.

It doesn't really matter, does it? Your son has people around him who love him, even if they're a bit intolerant of his antics.

[PinotGrigiosKittens]

"trotted out" - ooh how very passive aggressive of you usual :)

[usualsuspect]

Just like your smile

[electra44]

twinklingfairy... this was the bit of your post that made me think that your Mum might be in agreement - either that or trying to keep the peace between you: I have walked in on discussions between them and my mum which they were unaware that I caught the gist of.

I agree. I think there is some aspect of the way you approach your son that is causing some discussion within your family and the fact that they mention you are harder on your daughter supports this in my view. Perhaps a calm talk with you r Mum and then sister separately might allow you to understand what they might be getting at but might find it hard to express because they don't want to cause a fight or upset you.

[Bucharest]

Pinot, well,of course, dd is being brought up in Italy, so the village raising her is not the half of it!

We have all had badly behaved children at times, at age 2, 5, 10, whatever. The difference is that some of us are a bit embarassed by it, and attempt to do something about it, whilst others dress it up as "little monkey" ness.

As I said before, I don't have a problem with the cds being played with, not at all, and I do think the sister sounds a bossypants, but I also think the child needs to stop having his mother excuse every bit of naughtiness.

[PinotGrigiosKittens]

thanks

[Mumwithadragontattoo]

YANBU - your sister was way out of line both for disciplining your son and then for telling you how much better she is as a parent than you.

I don't think your son is badly behaved from the way you've described things and in any event it is for you to set the parameters for his behaviour. Like you I don't agree with constantly telling a child 'no' and setting up conflict unnecessarily. I think taking the constant conflict out of the parent child relation is normally good for the child's behaviour rather than bad.

[twinklingfairy]

I do not excuse every piece of naughtiness.
And I do not dress up his behaviour as cheeky monkey ness.
That is a sweeping statement questioning all aspects of the way I deal with my sons behaviour.

As you have read, I use the naughty step, I tell him off, I have a reasonable limit. I believe that my Dsis limit is unreasonable and that she will not be able to maintain it with her own and I would like her to stop randomly trying to instill it in my children then telling me how badly I am doing because it didn't go down as well as she wanted it to.

There is nothing wrong with family helping to instil manners etc but if they are not thinking along my lines then it is confusing for the children.
She is sargent major, I am not.
It won't work.

[StayingDavidTennantsGirl]

I think that the cds are a bit of a red herring here. For the sake of argument, lets say that the OP's son was playing with some Duplo, rather than the cds. He was out of the way (in a seperate room), and the toys were ones he was allowed to play with.

There is no reason why he needs to stop playing (lunchtime, time to go home, 'Put those away then we can get out X toy that you like playing with, other people needing to use that room), he's not in anyone else's way
and he's playing happily, not bothering anyone.

Then, out of the blue, he's told to tidy up the toys he is still playing with, and when he refuses (because he's still enjoying his game) the person goes and gives his mum a lecture on parenting.

Does the sister's behaviour still look reasonable? I don't think it does, tbh.

[Dozer]

Think your sister is out of order, but I wouldn't be happy if my kids spoke to a relative like that, even at 2.5 if the relative was being unreasonable.

[BalloonSlayer]

"I said I preferred to think of his cheeky nature as a developing personality that I believe will be pleasant not rude."

Why do you think that an un-checked cheeky nature will result in a pleasant rather than unpleasant personality?

[amberleaf]

YANBU

Your sister is interfering.

I cant believe the judging going on here!

OP your son sounds perfectly normal, im sure with the right boundaries he will grow into a normal 3-4-5 etc yr old.

[PenguinArmy]

I don't think YABU however the popular traditional style of parenting will never concede otherwise so there's no point fighting this battle with the posters.

As you say why should a child accept he has to stop doing something just because a adult told him to when he knows what he's doing is allowed and OK.

[MollyMurphy]

I think that is a tough situation really but I'm inclined to think you probably set it up yourself unfortunately. Probably scattering CD's isn't an appropriate activity and you should have redirected that the first time he did it. If I was your sister, I probably would have ignored it as its your issue not hers, or I might have asked you to redirect him.

However, since she did asked him to clean up and she is his Aunt and a known elder/adult - then I would have had him follow through with it and addressed his talking back to her as a matter of principle.

That said, your sister was being totally full of herself, rude and should have kept her parenting opinions to herself. I definately would have told her as much.

[ZhenXiang]

YAB abit U but so is your SIL

My daughter is nearly two and although she is in the 'no' phase if she is directly being cheeky or naughty as opposed to just saying no to everything automatically then I tell her off.

I would not tolerate DD talking back to adults like that, especially family and she would be told off.

DD also has to help tidy up, but I make this more into a game by singing the tidy up song and telling her which toys to put in the box and then making a fuss when she does.

When she does deliberately pull out toys/objects and fling them on the floor she gets told off too. Also I keep her away from CD's/DVD's as if they put them in their mouth they can cut them quite badly.

Having said that your SIL did overstep the mark with telling him to tidy up the CD's he has permission to play with when he was still playing. It is your job as parent to tell him to stop playing and tidy up, but I think you need to take on board some of what your SIL is saying, it is not on that he screams for hours on end to try to get his own way.

Also other family members need to have some authority to discipline him in the event that you are not there for whatever reason. Imagine if he was doing something dangerous and ignored SIL request for him to stop and you were not there. Be clear with SIL that if you are there she should defer to you unless DS or DD are doing something clearly naughty/dangerous i.e. drawing on walls, sticking items in plug sockets etc... Also get Granny to re-iterate to DS that he is allowed to do what he is doing with the CD's in front of SIL so that she has no excuses to step in on Granny's behalf.

You may think it is cute now and that he is just being cheeky, but if you start young then they are used to the discipline whereas if you start cracking down at 3 or later it is harder for them to understand why you have suddenly changed. I have a young niece that everyone thought was being cheeky and cute when she was around your son's age. Her mum and other family members let her get away with things that none of the other children in the family could do, now she is 6 and is often rude and disobedient and when her mum tries to discipline her she often talks back and ignores her. Her older siblings and cousins (all 10 of them) who were not spoilt this way didn't display this behaviour.

[nailak]

tbh i cant see the point of makin a child tidy up while they are still in the middle of playin with the thins? if he was finished with the cds and took sometjin else out then it would be R to make him clean them up first but that doesnt seem the case?

in my mums house my kids have toys, they play with stuff they know they are allowed to, leave the ornaments etc, help themselves to fruit from the basket and we all clean up toether before we leave, includin washin up, sweepin floor etc.

i found with my dd2 2yrs if you interact with her by showin her excactly what you want her to do, as in pass her the cd then put it in the basket, then say thank you, she will quickly have the idea and finish herself, a lot less stressful and time consumin then shoutin etc

[twinklingfairy]

When it is time to go home we do tidy up together. I am not sure if I said that or if the assumption is that I don't make him tidy at all? I do.

Zhen you have made some good points but I really must go and wash my 'brats'.
I will talk again after.

[Glitterknickaz]

from the OP "Sis tries to assert her authority over my children everytime she sees them, has done the same with DB girls too. To the point of ruining the enjoyment of dinner for them but being either unaware or unconcerned."

Sis sounds like a know it all pain in the ass.
She has form with her other nieces for unnecessary telling off.
Still think the OP is a terrible parent?

[StayingDavidTennantsGirl]

MollyMurphy - the cds are cheap ones kept specially for the OP's ds to play with. As I said earlier, substitute the word 'duplo' (or just 'toy') for 'cds', and it becomes a whole different story.

The OP's ds was playing a game he was allowed to play, with a 'toy' he was permitted to play with. He wasn't in anyone's way, and there was no actual reason for his auntie to ask him to clear up his game - she just decided to make him tidy up. He refused, not unreasonably, imo.

[Fifis25StottieCakes]

Hes only 2 fgs. Op YANBU. You tidy up when you leave. My 2 year old has a habit of saying no. He was only playing with a few crappy cd's that were left for him to play with. I wouldnt tell other peoples children off. IMO its rude. I would tell the parents and let them sort it out.

[MoreCrackThanHarlem]

What a bizarre thread
I agree with hully and math

The child was playing with CDs given to him TO PLAY WITH
Your sister sounds rude and interfering

And all these weird 'he has behavioural issues' posts are jumping on the bandwagon

Shock horror! 2 year old plays with stuff and says no!

[TheyCallMeMrPig]

Really CBA to read all 9 pages but i'll say this. I agree that he is only 2 but you have said that she asked him to tidy up before he was ready.....so at 2 years old he is allowed to anything as and when he pleases??
He sounds like he has you all wrapped around his little finger. He needs to be set some boundaries. Children tend to not to do well with given a free rein. They actually need discipline and if you don't mind me saying, you aren't actually doing him any favours.
And ftr, my sister and i discipline each others children as and when needed. And i used to discipline hers before i had my own. It's about respect.

[twinklingfairy]

I am not saying he wasn't cheeky, yes in hindsight it is not great to be told to go by a 2yr old, but it is one of his stock phrases that he trots out with a smile to try to continue with what he knows he ought not to.
And, for me, that is the key. He knows he ought not to be doing it, but he is trying to get around you by telling/suggesting that you go find whoevers name pops into this head.
When I was on here a while back with something my DD had done, sorry can't remember, but I was cross someone told me I should be proud because she was clever enough to try her hand at manipulating a situation.
DS tries it and he is a brat.
Bearing in mind that he knows what he is doing, he is grinning as he does it to try to get you to smile and let him off.
Not nasty cross rudeness.

Not saying that I ought to let it continue, I will work on changing his phrase/not let him away with it.
Whatever I have to do.

But for my sis to say that she could sort him out in a week, that he would be the problem child in the class, get bad reports and that I have always been too soft.
Blow, blow. blow, personal blow.
And why?
Because he wouldn't tidy his toys up, at her command, whilst he was still playing?
And because sis thinks that she can say these things to me and it won't offend?

And I abu because I am upset by it?