To be annoyed by my sisters talk of sorting out my sons behaviour?

[twinklingfairy]

I have a 2.5 yr old son who is a wee monkey who is in a habit of saying no, then stepping forward to do what he just said he wouldn't.
When he is on the loo or wants to be naughty he says 'you go find granny/sister or daddy'

Sis tries to assert her authority over my children everytime she sees them, has done the same with DB girls too. To the point of ruining the enjoyment of dinner for them but being either unaware or unconcerned.

On Sunday she decided that my DS ought to tidy up the CDs that he scatters around Granny's music room everytime we go there to play (we normally tidy up when we leave)
She decided to tell him to do it just because she wanted him to. To which he replied No.
So she told him again, same response, so she tried threatening tones, he told her no, go find granny.
She then gives up realising that it was a pointless battle of wills she was only going to lose and anyway, was it that important? Not really.

So she comes through to me, with her smile, to tell me about what he had done (refusing to do as he was told) and that he had been cheeky to her.
She said that she would have had him on the naughty step for that and that his cheekiness would just not be accepted in her house.
I then end up in an hour long discussion with her over discipline styles during which she tells me she would have a stronger hand, that I have always been soft on my boy (much harder on my older girl), that if she had him for a week she would have him sorted out and that he will get bad reports in school for his cheek.
I said I preferred to think of his cheeky nature as a developing personality that I believe will be pleasant not rude.
And that, when she has children, she will not be saying what she is now and that if she does try to have a firmer hand, her children will be frightened to move for fear of a row. No one could keep up the level of intensity that she intends to have.

My boy will do as he is told (for the most part), he is not rude to strangers and if he is, come on he is 2!
If he doesn't you can normally do the 1, do that, 2 do that 3.... and he will do that for fear of the naughty step which I use regularly. As regularly as I feel in necessary.
Yes I probably am softer on him, but he is a different boy who would scream for hours if he felt inclined. There is only so far you can push it before he ends up spending all day on the step. So I pick my fights.

Arg, see, I am defending myself already!

[Gooseberrybushes]

He sounds like he is being a bit too naughty for "cheekiness" - but your sister's behaviour is counter-productive and highly typical of relatives who do not have children yet or who have grown children.

[BoneyBackJefferson]

"DS didn't want to.
He said so."

Please home school

[Knax]

Cheeky cow, tell her to butt out

[naturalbaby]

twinklingfairy, or is it o'clock? good on you for sticking with the thread and the nonsense people are spouting about how your ds has behaviour issues because he stood up for himself and said no to your unreasonable sister's demands.

my 2yr old does know and understand that he can speak to people differently depending on who they are and how familiar they are with them, i'm sure yours is the same. saying no to your unreasonable sil is one thing but i'm sure he'll be a star at playgroup and do exactly what he is told, when he is asked to do it (with no 'backchat'!)

[ZhenXiang]

"But for my sis to say that she could sort him out in a week, that he would be the problem child in the class, get bad reports and that I have always been too soft."

Twinkling - I think you know as a parent when your child needs to be told off or not and as you have just said now that DS is getting to nursery age you will start to have different expectations of his behaviour as he is getting older. Don't justify your choices to Sis, tell your Sis that you are not interested in her opinions and that you will no longer discuss it with her as she is unwilling to listen to your wishes regarding discipline of your own child. Sis (sorry got confused and said SIL earlier) clearly does not know what she is talking about, just because he is a bit cheeky now that does not indicate a behaviour problem, he is just asserting himself more as he grows older and it is for you not Sis to decide how far you are prepared to let him go with that. I have found that the slightly cheeky children in my family are often the brighter children who develop a mind of their own earlier, but go on to be good students and are well behaved at school.

[floyjoy]

Isn't this pretty much about sibling rivalry between the OP and her sister? OP has kids, sister hasn't but just in case anyone thinks she feels lesser because she hasn't produced grandkids (thereby getting a fair bit of family attention and moving up the pecking order) she wants to point out how badly the OP is raising her DS and how she will be so much better when the time comes.

Don't families at least usually have some kind of informal rule about who can discipline? I always tread carefully with by sis's kids. Not my job, unless something really bad was happening. She does likewise. But you should speak to her if it's really a problem for you.

However, agree that you DS might only be so cute to you! Noticed your your description of DD as 'easygoing' and DS as 'characterful'. Easygoing kids have character. Unless one of your kids has SN, etc. that effects behaviour, you should be treating them equally when it comes to expectations about their behaviour. Don't let the boy away with behaving worse than the girl!

[twinklingfairy]

That has kinda been my thinking on the 'No's thus far Footballmum.
That it is not worth worrying over, it is just part of being 2.
Though I do think he says it rather a lot and although I can turn a blind eye because I understand him, he is going to start playgroup soon so I think summer will have to be about, no more 'no's. Or 'go finds'

Do you know though, glitter, I had to explain to my DH that in order to get his point across he didn't have to make a child cry.
It was serious stuff he was trying to tell DD about being safe but he kept hammering the point across until I intervened and said enough.
He said he wanted to be sure she understood.
By making her cry?
No! I didn't mean to do that.
I think he just couldn't see the line.
He sees it now.

But perhaps that is sis logic. That she has to be tough so they see she means business. But picking fights with no reason is just dumb.
She will learn that, hopefully.

In the meantime raising her sceptical eyebrow at me when I try to say how I think my way will work is just aggravating.
Well, I will have a firmer hand. I won't take any of that kind of cheek. I just won't. My child will know. I would use the naughty step more.

aye, at 2. On you go. Good luck with that.

[footballmum]

You have my sympathies OP, my FIL's wife does exactly the same thing. She has no kids herself and yet is a self proclaimed child expert. Drives me bloody mad! If she plays with my DSs, she decides how the game must be played and if they get it wrong, they have to keep playing until they get it right! If they have a tantrum or falling out she wades in to sort it out. And a dinner table! Oh that is where she rules supreme, constantly telling DSs to shush or sit still or hold their fork this way-it goes on and on!! I fully agree that your sis was out of line. There was obviously no need for her to interfere and even if your DS was a little bit cheeky I find the best policy is to ignore that sort of behaviour and don't let them know they are getting a rise out of you.

[Glitterknickaz]

the OP's sis obviously gets some kind of weird power trip over bossing kids around until they're miserable..... lovely

[thatwasntverycleverwasit]

Oops. Put the wine down. Just realised I only read page one of a 10 page thread!

[amberleaf]

but you have said that she asked him to tidy up before he was ready.....so at 2 years old he is allowed to anything as and when he pleases??

Thats not really the issue-It wasnt the sisters place to tell him to tidy up, she must have seen previously that the OP gets him to do it before they leave.

That is why the sister was unreasonable and interfering.

[thatwasntverycleverwasit]

I can't believe the flack the OP is taking here. My 2 year old has a habit of saying 'No' and not meaning it, as do many other toddlers I'm sure. If he usually does as he is told what's the problem? As the OP said he is only 2! I would not be making him clear up to make a point if it is usually done at the end of the visit.
YANBU - your sister will not be so smug when she has her own.

[twinklingfairy]

My eldest brother and I though.
No problem.
I was the same, before I had my own I would reprimand them but I would make sure that I was doing it for the same reasons I felt my brother would, using similar lines of communicating.
We understand each other better.

Sis and I?
Not so much.

Again, it is just about her knowing best and enforcing her will as opposed to backing up my methods or reasoning, sorry running out of words and I am sure I am falling short of expressing myself as I mean to.

[twinklingfairy]

Yeah, your right but sis has none, for me.

[twinklingfairy]

I am not saying he wasn't cheeky, yes in hindsight it is not great to be told to go by a 2yr old, but it is one of his stock phrases that he trots out with a smile to try to continue with what he knows he ought not to.
And, for me, that is the key. He knows he ought not to be doing it, but he is trying to get around you by telling/suggesting that you go find whoevers name pops into this head.
When I was on here a while back with something my DD had done, sorry can't remember, but I was cross someone told me I should be proud because she was clever enough to try her hand at manipulating a situation.
DS tries it and he is a brat.
Bearing in mind that he knows what he is doing, he is grinning as he does it to try to get you to smile and let him off.
Not nasty cross rudeness.

Not saying that I ought to let it continue, I will work on changing his phrase/not let him away with it.
Whatever I have to do.

But for my sis to say that she could sort him out in a week, that he would be the problem child in the class, get bad reports and that I have always been too soft.
Blow, blow. blow, personal blow.
And why?
Because he wouldn't tidy his toys up, at her command, whilst he was still playing?
And because sis thinks that she can say these things to me and it won't offend?

And I abu because I am upset by it?

[TheyCallMeMrPig]

Really CBA to read all 9 pages but i'll say this. I agree that he is only 2 but you have said that she asked him to tidy up before he was ready.....so at 2 years old he is allowed to anything as and when he pleases??
He sounds like he has you all wrapped around his little finger. He needs to be set some boundaries. Children tend to not to do well with given a free rein. They actually need discipline and if you don't mind me saying, you aren't actually doing him any favours.
And ftr, my sister and i discipline each others children as and when needed. And i used to discipline hers before i had my own. It's about respect.

[MoreCrackThanHarlem]

What a bizarre thread
I agree with hully and math

The child was playing with CDs given to him TO PLAY WITH
Your sister sounds rude and interfering

And all these weird 'he has behavioural issues' posts are jumping on the bandwagon

Shock horror! 2 year old plays with stuff and says no!

[Fifis25StottieCakes]

Hes only 2 fgs. Op YANBU. You tidy up when you leave. My 2 year old has a habit of saying no. He was only playing with a few crappy cd's that were left for him to play with. I wouldnt tell other peoples children off. IMO its rude. I would tell the parents and let them sort it out.

[StayingDavidTennantsGirl]

MollyMurphy - the cds are cheap ones kept specially for the OP's ds to play with. As I said earlier, substitute the word 'duplo' (or just 'toy') for 'cds', and it becomes a whole different story.

The OP's ds was playing a game he was allowed to play, with a 'toy' he was permitted to play with. He wasn't in anyone's way, and there was no actual reason for his auntie to ask him to clear up his game - she just decided to make him tidy up. He refused, not unreasonably, imo.

[Glitterknickaz]

from the OP "Sis tries to assert her authority over my children everytime she sees them, has done the same with DB girls too. To the point of ruining the enjoyment of dinner for them but being either unaware or unconcerned."

Sis sounds like a know it all pain in the ass.
She has form with her other nieces for unnecessary telling off.
Still think the OP is a terrible parent?

[twinklingfairy]

When it is time to go home we do tidy up together. I am not sure if I said that or if the assumption is that I don't make him tidy at all? I do.

Zhen you have made some good points but I really must go and wash my 'brats'.
I will talk again after.

[nailak]

tbh i cant see the point of makin a child tidy up while they are still in the middle of playin with the thins? if he was finished with the cds and took sometjin else out then it would be R to make him clean them up first but that doesnt seem the case?

in my mums house my kids have toys, they play with stuff they know they are allowed to, leave the ornaments etc, help themselves to fruit from the basket and we all clean up toether before we leave, includin washin up, sweepin floor etc.

i found with my dd2 2yrs if you interact with her by showin her excactly what you want her to do, as in pass her the cd then put it in the basket, then say thank you, she will quickly have the idea and finish herself, a lot less stressful and time consumin then shoutin etc

[ZhenXiang]

YAB abit U but so is your SIL

My daughter is nearly two and although she is in the 'no' phase if she is directly being cheeky or naughty as opposed to just saying no to everything automatically then I tell her off.

I would not tolerate DD talking back to adults like that, especially family and she would be told off.

DD also has to help tidy up, but I make this more into a game by singing the tidy up song and telling her which toys to put in the box and then making a fuss when she does.

When she does deliberately pull out toys/objects and fling them on the floor she gets told off too. Also I keep her away from CD's/DVD's as if they put them in their mouth they can cut them quite badly.

Having said that your SIL did overstep the mark with telling him to tidy up the CD's he has permission to play with when he was still playing. It is your job as parent to tell him to stop playing and tidy up, but I think you need to take on board some of what your SIL is saying, it is not on that he screams for hours on end to try to get his own way.

Also other family members need to have some authority to discipline him in the event that you are not there for whatever reason. Imagine if he was doing something dangerous and ignored SIL request for him to stop and you were not there. Be clear with SIL that if you are there she should defer to you unless DS or DD are doing something clearly naughty/dangerous i.e. drawing on walls, sticking items in plug sockets etc... Also get Granny to re-iterate to DS that he is allowed to do what he is doing with the CD's in front of SIL so that she has no excuses to step in on Granny's behalf.

You may think it is cute now and that he is just being cheeky, but if you start young then they are used to the discipline whereas if you start cracking down at 3 or later it is harder for them to understand why you have suddenly changed. I have a young niece that everyone thought was being cheeky and cute when she was around your son's age. Her mum and other family members let her get away with things that none of the other children in the family could do, now she is 6 and is often rude and disobedient and when her mum tries to discipline her she often talks back and ignores her. Her older siblings and cousins (all 10 of them) who were not spoilt this way didn't display this behaviour.

[MollyMurphy]

I think that is a tough situation really but I'm inclined to think you probably set it up yourself unfortunately. Probably scattering CD's isn't an appropriate activity and you should have redirected that the first time he did it. If I was your sister, I probably would have ignored it as its your issue not hers, or I might have asked you to redirect him.

However, since she did asked him to clean up and she is his Aunt and a known elder/adult - then I would have had him follow through with it and addressed his talking back to her as a matter of principle.

That said, your sister was being totally full of herself, rude and should have kept her parenting opinions to herself. I definately would have told her as much.