Am sick to fucking death of my theiving fucking kids AIBU to keep them in indefinitely

[shinyshoes]

For months now money have been missing from my purse.

I decided to not keep any cash on me whatsoever, this became difficult when I was out and needed a drink as was paying for a can of drink on the debit card and was embarresed.

Both my elder children deny taking it.

They are given the best trainers, the best clothes, the newest Xbox games, treats , they ant for nothing.

One of us is alwways at home, we both work but make sure it works out one parent is always at home with them, so it's not for attention.

I had to draw out money as I have my ironing sent out and pay by cash when it gets redelivered. Plus the window cleaner has been this eek so I needed cash to pay him.

I hide my purse regularly and often carry it around the house with me.

Unfortunately last night I left it downstairs, waking up in a panic I retrieved it and counted the money. It was all there. I left it on the bed came downstairs again forgetting to bring it down and now a £5.00 is missing a £1.00 coin is missing and bits of loose change.

Of course the kids haven't touched my purse

I'm fucking sick to the back teeth of this. I'm at my wits end and so bloody angry.

AIBU to just keep the kids in until one of them owns up

My DS1 has gone sailing but can't definitley rule him out.
My DS2 is upstairs under much protest tidying his pigsty of a room

My DD is 3 and normally tells me if she's touched the money to play 'shops' she says she hasn't touched it.

This is going on pretty much everytime my purse is left unattended

I may eat these words one day but I cannot believe anyone is suggesting locking things away!!! If children / young people can't be taught to not steal at home what hope is there for them in the outside world.

Stop all spending on them till they have paid you back with chores etc. I would also have been tempted to not pay the non-existant dinner money and make them a really sparce packed lunch till the equivalent money was saved.

I am astonished that "removing the temptation" is an option but I do agree that some pocket money (for a decent range of chores at that age) is appropriate but you must make them buy some of their own stuff with it. The can then choose to spend it on sweets or save for a game or something.

I called the Police.

Best thing I ever did.

OP -you are at your wits end but fail to see that you need to act here.

You need to deprive your children to give them perspective and make them value money.

They will rebel. It will be tough.

It's that now...

...or court for theft when they are older. Your choice. This is your job as a parent

I've had the Police involved twice for DD. It didn't stop her.

I have to say the last two weeks have been better though, better than in a looooong time.
Me not shouting constantly, and giving her choice has helped.

When I say choice, I mean, instead of getting cross and shouting because she won't have a shower, saying that she needs to have one before Youth Club or she can't go, but the choice is hers and I'm not bothered either way.

She can't steal my money any more either as I have a lock on my bedroom.

I'm also involving her more again. I always did, there's only the two of us in the house, but the worse her behaviour got, the more I pushed her away.
Of course I cuddled her, and told her I loved her, but was happy to settle for us watching TV in the same room, kidding myself that we were spending time together.
I realise now that I need to go back to doing things with her, and giving it's hard for me to go out, lots of those things are household tasks, but we do them together.

Last night we were both quite happy watching TV, but instead of just doing that, I got the Uno cards out, and we had a few games.

We've made dinner together tonight, and are going to choose a game to play later.

I realise now how hostile I'd become, and feel bad about it.

Cushie's post is what helped me in a lot of ways, when I linked it to my behaviour as a teen, and DD's behaviour now.

I don't think everything's fine and dandy, I will still be using SS support, but it's an improvement.

I may eat these words one day but I cannot believe anyone is suggesting locking things away!!! If children / young people can't be taught to not steal at home what hope is there for them in the outside world.
Actually, I think a LOT of teenagers have sneakily taken a few coins from their parents, it doesn't mean they're going to be stealing from the general populace.

I didn't mean anyone who has sneakily taken a few coins is going to be a master criminal. I meant that just locking stuff away when there appears to be recurring behaviour isn't addressing the issue, it is simply removing the temptation. Sanctions and bollockings and attempting to understand what is causing the behaviour is far more constructive. Ok the reason may just be that they are pushing their luck but you still need to know, so the punishment can be linked to the behaviour.

My DD stole £20 from my blind mother who adores her.

When she called me to let me know, she could hardly speak for crying.

That's when I called the Police and SS and told them if they did not remove her from my sight I would not be responsible for my actions. I meant it.
(BTW, this was after a year of unspeakable behaviour)

She is now an absolute darling who I would trust with my life.

I don't want to scare you, but could there be any drug dealing going on near you or near their school ... it happens in the most unexpected places and kids are being pressurised to steal from their parents either to buy drugs or because they are being threatened/bullied ....

i would strip their rooms bare of all and anything that is not a necessity and lock them away until they can 'earn' them back - i do not agree with other posters who say you cannot punish all the children when it may only be 1 of them as you can be pretty damn sure the kids know who is doing this. each child toes the line for a week and gets 1 item back for their room (so to get 1 games station and 1 game will take 2 weeks) and this could go on for months and months but do not give in - just taking all the iems away may well produce an answer as the others may 'make' the culprit own up - but it could be all of themm, 2 of them or just 1 of them. when you do find out you need to know why they have done it - are they being bullied, smoking, drinking etc - ( i live near a recreation area and the number of pissed 12-15 year olds, especially at week-ends is simply scary - I cannot believe what their parents think as a lot of them are too drunk to walk) - another concern would be if they are stealing elsewhere, at friends houses, school, at leisure activities etc.

keep your main purse locked away but still leave odd amounts around to test them out - note the numbers on bank notes etc.

as to stealing school meals monies - pay it monthly by cheque

when this is sorted perhaps you can establish a monthly allowance per child and a 'buying schedule' i.e. they want a cd - it costs sat £10 you buy it but keep it back and take £2.00 a week from them until is is paid - or a list of 'value' jobs to be done until they earn it - when it is paid for they can have it

hope this helps

( ps my brother used to thieve when we were kids, my father was aware and we spoke about it but my mother refused to believe it
even when she was presented with the evidence - this was awful for me and my other brother as she still tried to blame us knowing it was not)

"set a trap. discreat video camera on shelf. money left on table in room with all three children moving around."

This is really terrible advice in my opinion.
So what then, you catch the culprit?
Big deal.
And then what?
What are you going to do to help him change?
He needs to feel terrible about what he has done and if mummy plays her own sneaky tricks to catch him at it it just turns it into a massive game of avoiding being caught.
And locking stuff away is awful too.
This is a family home not a freaking museum.

The title of this thread says it all. If you can call your own children "fucking theiving kids" then you've lost it.
You need to start again.
At bottom this is a heart issue. You don't sound as though you like your children. In many ways that is very normal and understandable, but you cannot give yourself permission to feel like that .
Go down that adversarial road with your children now and you will live to regret it.
It's not about the money, your children need you to fasten their heartstrings to yours before they become permanently unmoored.

Cushie
Kids get worked a lot harder at school than in my day and they need a bit of down time, Whether it's computer game related or not. My DD has a list of things she could do around the house and a small rate of pay for each. She can choose which she wants to do and be paid at the end of the week accordingly. This is to earn her pocket money. Some weeks she will earn as much as £15, others next to nothing. The choice is hers. However, after doing her homework I think she is entitled to please herself in the few hours left in her day rather than be set to work doing chores. She generally chooses to sit and chat while I make tea. Yes I only have one child, that was not my choice but if I could have had more, I certainly wouldn't be using them as unpaid labour. I'm done with this thread!

I resisted a lock on my room for two years, two years.
I said the same thing, locking things away wasn't the answer, DD needs to learn to not take them.
When I found out she'd taken a watch and covered it in glue and had been messing with my medication, and had taken all my framed photos, I got the lock.

It doesn't matter if you catch which one it is. I only have one, so I knew it was her and she knew I knew.

There's a deeper problem in my home, though I don't know what that is yet, and I'd suggest there is one in the OP's too.

Certainly the problem in my home as a teen was the lack of time my parents spent with me, and the fact that I was a kid, a child (I was a teen) and therefore my opinion counted for nothing, and I wasn't capable of helping, or being a valid member of the family.

I wasn't asking to be taken on outings, just being asked to hoover would have been enough, and then my Mum saying thanks, instead of saying, 'ooooh, thannnnk youuu, thaaat's greeeeat', in an exaggerated fashion as if I was a two year old who'd painted a picture at nursery, and then hoovering again later.
Similarly, if my Mum had asked for help with the shopping, or acknowledged that I wasn't enjoying the meals and asked what I'd like, and to come up with some suggestions.

I didn't feel like a valid member of the household at all, ever.
Not even when I'd been away at Uni for a year and had coped on my own, and not when I'd been travelling for two years, on my own.
I was always the child who didn't have a voice, and wasn't worth listening to.

Get this, my Mum insisted that Creme Fraiche, was pronounced 'Crem Frez'.
I told her the correct pronunciation, but she wouldn't believe me.
Ditto vinigrette (veeneegray) en suite (ong swee) and ratataouille (ratatwee).

Netto
Your story really resonates with me. That's exactly what I'm trying to say.
I also felt a bit of a spare part when I was growing up. My other used to go into the kitchen and close the door behind her. She just wanted a bit of p&q. If I tried to go in she got really cross because she didn't like to be interrupted while she cooked and cleaned.
I felt as though I was just another job of work.
I don't blame her, but I know how that felt and I'm trying to do things differently.

My comment about using a lock was not a criticism of you or anyone else.
I'm sorry if it read that way.
I just think that, as stand alone advice, it's hopeless.
Putting a lock on the door is a perfectly sensible practical step in the short term.
I have used a lock in the past before, partly to break a habit of just turning the tv on when they wandered into the room. They just kept doing it, no matter how cross I got.
I don't think they were being deliberately disobedient, it was just that the temptation at the time was overwhelming for them.
I don't need a lock any more, but it was very useful in it's time.
But I think that advice that is limited to getting a lock and using a video cam and leaving loose change around to entrap them is no solution at all. In fact it just exacerbates an atmosphere of mistrustfulness.

I really do applaud you for facing up to the underlying problems and trying to address it now, rather than dumping the blame on your daughter or sundry other circumstances.
The only person you can change is yourself.
Hang in there, you are playing a long game and the results come dropping slow.
But it will be the most rewarding thing you have ever done.
People aren't like slot machines and it takes a lot off patience and determination and faith to do things differently.
I wish you all the best.

^"Get this, my Mum insisted that Creme Fraiche, was pronounced 'Crem Frez'.
I told her the correct pronunciation, but she wouldn't believe me.
Ditto vinigrette (veeneegray) en suite (ong swee) and ratataouille (ratatwee)."^
This really made me smile!

shinyshoes has revealed a lot about herself here.

Firstly it is clear that she feels like a victim, and she feels detached from her children's behaviour. She also feels it is acceptable to speak so aggressively of them as though she is not their nurturer (yes, even at 14 they need nurturing!) She also places a great deal of emphasis on the things that she bought them, assuming that these are paramount in their lives.

No child is born with a strong desire to own stuff. They do inherently desire to become like their parents, so if they are selfish and materialistic that's something we have allowed to happen by the way we have shaped our lives. If they are stealing or behaving in any way that we don't like, there is great news. We are in charge and change will happen if it starts with ourselves. We don't have to panic and battle with them but we do need to take a long hard look at what dominates the home.

For example, are these children encouraged to think of others? When they have all the latest stuff, do they think at all of the children around them whose parents cannot afford them, and the pressure that creates in other homes? Probably not. This is a curse of the modern age, children market to each other and parents are zombie-like letting it happen. We all have to wake up to the damage done by materialism, and recognise that it demands EXTRA parenting from us instead of releasing us from it.

I would suggest shinyshoes has a nice chat with her children and maybe having a communal loose change pot that is not scrutinised. People who share everything and consider everything comunal are less likely to be sneaky - which, at the end of the day, is causing the distress here.

Btw it's shocking that 10 and 14 year olds are considered 'too old to hang out with their mums'. They're still children. Why are people so determined to zoom children through to the next stage?

I think shiny has been very brave to post this, not the sort of thing you are likely to feel that great about is it.
Lots of people here have come up with a wide range of suggestions, and I'm sure we all hope that it all resolves itself well.

Linklonk

"I would suggest shinyshoes has a nice chat with her children and maybe having a communal loose change pot that is not scrutinised. People who share everything and consider everything comunal are less likely to be sneaky - which, at the end of the day, is causing the distress here."

I really, really like this idea. And I completely agree that the principal at the ground is a philosophy of communality and sharing.

"Btw it's shocking that 10 and 14 year olds are considered 'too old to hang out with their mums'. They're still children. Why are people so determined to zoom children through to the next stage?"

Couldn't agree more. I find this idea astonishing.
My oldest son is 21 and he still hangs out with us and pitches in. When we had our youngest baby last year he was an absolute brick with the other children, and so were his mates.

Sarf
I agree with you, it is brave to express these feelings, and maybe Shiny was just having a really bad day.
But if I used that kind of language about my children I would really really expect a good friend to tell me to get a grip rather than telling me how right I am.
I really don't believe that we just ought to affirm eachother all the time and say what a great job we're doing.

Linklonk, you are being totally naive if you don't accept that wanting to own stuff is an inherently human trait. If you study man from our earliest beginnings you will see that possessions and status symbols have always figured - trade, hierarchies, religion and civilisation as we know it has emerged from this basic want. It would be great if we could avoid it, but we can't.
But agree with other posters that there is more going on in this family to lead to a situation wherein the morality not to steal is coming second to something else.
I stole from my mother's purse a few times when I was younger - one memorable time was so that I could buy every girl in my class an extravagent christmas present. This stemmed from my deep insecurity that nobody liked me, which skewed my morals to a huge extent, so must have been very, very painful.
Please try to find out the reasons, OP.

cushiebutterfield2 Fri 27-May-11 13:01:15

"Sarf
I agree with you, it is brave to express these feelings, and maybe Shiny was just having a really bad day.
But if I used that kind of language about my children I would really really expect a good friend to tell me to get a grip."

Which is what we have done, and I think you have done it best of all - my post was to wish her well.

Sarf
Yes, I understood you. Sorry.
Perhaps I sounded a bit more querulous than I felt.

deliakate to linklonk

"you are being totally naive if you don't accept that wanting to own stuff is an inherently human trait. If you study man from our earliest beginnings you will see that possessions and status symbols have always figured - trade, hierarchies, religion and civilisation as we know it has emerged from this basic want."

Actually I don't think you are precisely correct. Primitive societies functioned like tribal cooperatives, and most aquisition was for the benefit of the tribe itself. All hands to the pump, and share out the rewards.
That way the tribe is more likely to survive. Once they adopt an every man for himself, and "mine" and "yours" mentality, that starts to fall apart.
The family is like a small tribe in which all the members are interdependant on the others.

Sarf
Yes, I understood you. Sorry.
Perhaps I sounded a bit more querulous than I felt.

no worries Cushie - nice to see someone using the word 'querulous' :)

i have been having the same problems, i think you need proof to accuse one of your sons as no mother wants to think her child is stealing(i didnt). after having got the proof my husbands wallet was given back to me minus the money. it was my eldest son who is 15. HEe had also taken the younger childrens christmas money and admitted to taking money from my purse regularly. I do not think it is ideal to lock your things away as this does not solve the problem. After a long talk last night with myself my son and my husband, it transpires that all of his friends have disposible cash and he just wants things! delving deaper he has tried weed which is apparently availible every where at his school and in the villages,we of course have explained all about the dangers not immediate but in the future when he may suffer mental health issues.This however is not the reason for him stealing, i would know if this was a habit and i do know this was a one off i know his friends and beleive him, it was an act of self loathing, his self esteem is at an all time low, he doesnt know where he fits into the family, he is a teenager full of confusion and he himself does not understand why he does things.We have confiscated the trousers he bought with the stolen money and they will be going to the charity shop. We have told him how much we love him and even if he doesnt believe it or he doesnt feel it we want him to have a good future to look forward to.Having children is a life time job,and its really hard!

This is a weird thread, interesting though.

I just thought - I would NEVER have dreamts of stealing from my mother's purse when I was 9 or 10 or whatever. I didn't have pocket money at that age. And I didn't know how to ask for money (????) though this does not seem your children's problem although I may be wrong.

But I used to STEAL sweets from shops instead! I was never caught, but anyway ....

I would add I am a ridiculously moral person generally speaking as an adult.