To lie about friends being christened so that i can have them as my childrens godparents?

[ImChangingMyNameToDaddy]

I have booked my 2 boys Christening today for this year.

I have 6 people in line to be Godparents. My two best friends, 2 mutual Friends and a couple who babysat me as a young un and i babysat her boys when they were young.

BUT my two best friends are not christened and we dont think our mutual friends are either - waiting on replies from them.

I filled in the christening booking form today at the Church and when it asked about Godparents, i said No and ? to the ones that we dont know about and are sure they havent being christened?

AIBU to ring the church and tell them they have being christened or would they find out? The lady at church today said they check to see if godparents are christened - but my cousins who had their babies christened last year said 2 of their godparents (each) were not christened and the church never said anything or got back to them about it. I feel silly and stupid now for saying no and ? instead of YES

And to top it off everyone who i have told about the christening have commented on the date saying ''oh wont forget that date'' The christening is booked for September 11th :|

For all those thinking i am doing this for the party, gifts, attention or whatever else you want to accuse me of, think again because we are not having a party afterwards. We are having a sunday dinner at my mums.

Vajazz
My babies are 3yrs and 4.7yrs

OK in that case YABU for lying to a man/woman of god (lying thats one of those things they get all worked up over in the bible isn't it)

And having a meaningless ceremony for a religion you don't practice and don't have any feeling for (you don't or you wouldn't lie to the church helping you out).

YABVU it just seems offensive to be honest.

I'm unsure how to answer the question because I don't believe in christening, I think everything has been covered though about the fact you're not a Christian and don't seem to have any reason for having a Christening - no party, don't need it for school, it's not your faith...

My children are Dedicated with godparents who aren't necessarily Christian and no question about whether they were christened because our denomination doesn't believe in it. We chose godparents as people we thought would be there for the children and support them, not to teach them about the faith, that's our job. We believe baptism is for believers and is not the way to Heaven, it's just a step of faith and a public declaration as John the Baptist used it.

I find some of the comments about you can't be a practising Christian if you are not christened incredibly insulting! I was Dedicated, my parents thanked God for me, they bought me up going to church regularly and teaching me about the Christian faith (nothing was forced on us or anything, my brother doesn't go to church or even live a Christian life, that was the choice we all made and our parents left us free to do that) when I was old enough to understand and want to do it I accepted Jesus as my saviour. A little older still I was baptised, Biblical baptism where you enter water and are taken under until completely covered by it. Everything was my choice, me being obedient to the word, not something thrust on me by parents wanting a booze up and pretty pictures. How am I less of a practicing Christian than the person not been in church since their parents knees up when they were a baby?

"Baptists are the exception"

No, they're not. There are many denominations that don't believe in infant baptism.

"Does it make it any better that my children are aged 3 and 4 years old"

Not really. My 4 year old is very bright, she goes to a CoE school and Sunday School each week. Over Easter she has realised that we're Christians and keeps telling me things she has learnt at school, always ended with "that's what Christian's believe and we're Christians so I know" you can guarantee she's never quite right with what she's saying. She is surrounded by the Christian faith and wouldn't understand how to give her life to Jesus, how do you expect younger children brought up in an agnostic family to know better?

"Are there also a wedding crowd and funeral crowd?"

You should try hanging around in wedding forums for awhile! I'm always amazed at the people who choose their church based on how pretty the pictures are then complain about the cost, the pre-marriage course, having to go to church for however long and ask how they stop strangers coming to their wedding.

Is it universal that godparents have to have been christened? Personally I have no issue with the promises involved, in that I would support the parents' wish for the DC to be raised as Christians, irrespective of my own beliefs (although in all honesty I don't think many Godparents actually teach their Godchildren catechism) - someone who actually knows, could you clarify what the (average) church position is on this?

I do think you have had some pretty harsh replies, OP, but to me, it is not so much that your friends aren't Christened but the fact that I think its wrong to have your children Christened at all if you do not believe or do not intend to bring them up in the Christian faith. And no amount of O level religious studies or Bibles in bedside cabinets will make it right. When you stand with your children and friends and make promises which are built on lies, God will know. And I doubt He would be very impressed

If, of course, you don't believe in God, then why, why, why? I was never christened as my parents are not Christian and had no intention of bringing me up as one. I am being baptised as an adult in a few weeks as a profession of my faith.

I know loads of people who have their kids Christened for really bad reasons - the party, the photos, the gifts. I'm not saying this is you, but I just don't see why you are bothering.

Your 4.7 yo must be starting at the C of E school in September then...

Do you actually need to have six godparents? I always thought three was the norm.

I have no strong belief but chose to have Ds christened and attend Sunday school so he could make up his own mind when he's older. I also wanted him christened so if anything happened to him he could have a church funeral (he was a very poorly baby). He can decide when he's older whether he wants to be confirmed (I chose not to be).

Fwiw out of ds's three godparents two were very very religious (attending church every week plus a lot of other things - eg lay preacher). They were utterly awful as godparents. Failed completely to support Ds (and by extension me) during an utterly horrific time in our lives. So bad in fact that we are no longer in contact (their choice and action) so Ds now has one. Maybe six godparents isn't such a bad idea after all!

I agree with the philosophy of letting people chose what to believe. An education at a faith school would help to expose children to a foundation of what this is all about. In my family God parents tend to be the same as guardians - each to their own. Agree that you should choose adults that would be a good example; they don't all have to be religious/be a regular church goer. I think it is a nice thing to do and an important milestone. Not sure what all the fuss is about.

To throw a cat in, I have just turned down the dubious opportunity to be a child's godparent, not because I'm unchristened (I was christened to appease my paternal grandmother) but because I cannot stand up in front of good people and lie to them about my intentions. I will not raise the child in a christian manner, or even attempt to. It would be a lie.

stealth, it depends on the church and denomination. My church requires nothing of them except that they promise to support us and take an interest in the child.

oxocube, totally agree, you said everything I was trying to get my 3am brain to say!

MollieO, it's because she's having two children christened. It upsets me you had to have it done for a church funeral, how callous is it that anyone would turn down a child's funeral because of that? Our old minister tried to - nothing to do with christening, he just didn't like me - he told us to have a quick service at the crem. Fortunately I was still in hospital and Mum dealt with it, she told him we'll just use the church then and we got three other ministers to take the service, he did too but probably to keep face in front of his peers! ?Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.?

MollieO and confuddled I am truly that any priest/vicar/minister would refuse to hold a child's funeral in their church because that child had not been baptised.

DD was very poorly when she was born, and if she had died, the horrendous grief (which I'm sure I can't even begin to imagine) would have been compounded if we couldn't have given her the funeral we wanted, i.e. a church one.

I am very sorry for your loss confuddled and that your DS was so poorly, MollieO

YAB very U.

The only legitimate reason to have a child christened into a particular church is that you intend to raise the child in accordance with the practices and beliefs of that church. Otherwise it is a meaningless exercise and you are simply paying lip-service to something that many people take extremely seriously because you fancy the nice service, or because you want your child to go to the associated faith school or whatever reason.

If you start that process off with a lie to the person responsible for welcoming your child into that church community then clearly it can't be that important to you.

Why not simply speak to the minister and tell him your friends aren't christened but are practicing Christians and intend to support you in raising your child in that faith?

My DP recently turned down a request to be a godfather as he is not religious and was not prepared to make meaningless promises in the church environment as he felt it was insulting to those who truly believe. A neighbour of ours is an extremely devout Christian and approved whole-heartedly of his stance, saying that it offends her when people clearly pay lip-service to something that is so important to her.

I am not religious at all. I am happy to attend the Christenings of others on the basis that I am there to see them welcomed into a community that is important to thair parents, but I would not attend a Christening if I knew it was for non-religious reasons.

KD I don't know if they would have refused but it was a conversation I didn't want to have and having him christened gave me some comfort. Ds is a healthy nearly 7 yr old now, fortunately.

So you have absoloutely no reason at all for a christening? Its not for the school, its not because you intend to attend church with them, its not because you have a strong beleif system...it's not even for the oft-used pathetic excuse for a party.

What a massive waste of time.

yabu. parents don't have to be baptised or even believers. they just have to want the child to join the church and they have to promise to support them in this way. Godparents do have to be baptised. There is no central database of baptised people. You can be baptised catholic, URC, methodist whatever, as long as you're baptised.

So the vicar won't know and won't find out. You, however, will have to live with your lie.

Not sure what I think about the op but this rubbish about only being able to be a christian if you are Christened is just that, rubbish!
Only one of my parents has been Christened but if you met them at their Church (you would struggle they are currently in Kosova) you wouldn't be able to tell me which. I myself was dedicated, at the time my parents attended a free church, whereas my brother was christened. I think I have more of a Christian faith than he has (think- I know not his heart)

My dds Godmother has never been christened yet she had come back from a mission in India the week before dds christening having spent the years before that in Afghanistan.

There is only one church around here. It's a little high Anglican for me but there is not really that much choice
Isn't it for God to jusge? That is if you believe and if you don't what would all this matter anyway then?

Confuddled
"Are there also a wedding crowd and funeral crowd?"

You should try hanging around in wedding forums for awhile! I'm always amazed at the people who choose their church based on how pretty the pictures are then complain about the cost, the pre-marriage course, having to go to church for however long and ask how they stop strangers coming to their wedding.

Where did i ask about wedding crowd? funeral crowd? Iv been on a wedding forum and i can say i didnt get married in a church i got married in a registry office.

Gwendoline
Nope he is staying where he is at the moment in his nursery school - its a primary but not of faith. they learn about all religions, faiths, church etc etc He is happy there. Plus the c Of e school has limited spaces due to the amount of people wanting to send their children. I do not want to uproot him from his friends. I have spoke to him this morning about school, church, jesus, god christening etc etc and he said he is looking forward to going to church as it reminds him of christmas and also he told me all about baby jesus and mary and joseph.

hellno
why is it a massive waste of time? Might be to you, but its not to me.

The church we are going to is

St John the Evangelist

OP, I think people are saying its a waste of time because you say you have no intention of bringing your children up as Christians, of going to church, of belonging to a church family. I think that says it all.

Are you lot still at it?

You still haven't given any firm reason why you want your dcs baptised though

Are you able to express exactly why you feel you need to do this?

Peoples reasons for having their child baptised can include:

Superstition - Catholicism used to teach that a baby wouldn't be able to enter heaven if it died without being baptised.

Because you're a practising Christian and want to raise your children to be followers of Christ.

Because you want a nice day out, get dressed up in frilly dresses and strange hats and have photos taken.

Because you want presents, party and all the attention that accompanies such an event.

Cultural/Tradition reasons.

To get them into the right school.

Because they feel an urge to, even though they're unable to express it in words.

From what I can see, there are no other reasons why people have their children baptised.

Which one are you? If you don't know, just say. If it's for some vague cultural roots tradition thingy, just say, but stop skirting around the issue!

You have still not stated exactly why you want your dcs baptised

Why can't you do people the courtesy of just being truthful, or is the wording of your original question what you base your life on?

Lies

St John the Evangelist would probably have held your head under too long in frustration if you were in front of him now He didn't take any nonsense you know.

Why are you doing it then? You haven't given any actual reason and you don't seem to actually want to belong to the church.

Ilove I think that the OP wants her children baptised because she wants them to have some experience of the faith that she experienced as a child.

I don't think that it would be right for the OP to have her children baptised but I think that we should be more supportive in her exploring her faith. Otherwise we're just giving a really bad impression of Christians/Church!

I think it's wrong to be questioning your motives for wanting your children baptised. At our church when talking to people coming to book theirs all have some kind of faith whether they attend church or not, and find comfort in that faith, even if they never set foot inside a church at other times.

However, you must know it's wrong to lie? It does rather undermine the whole thing of standing in front of people making solemn promises on a child's behalf. But in the end it's probably up to your own conscience and that of the other two people who will also be required to lie, to the vicar, whoever is helping out, and the group of people they are standing up in front of. Our church offers baptism at the same time to adults who wish to be godparents but who aren't baptised themselves, a few people do take that up, alternatively they can be listed as sponsors and you could just call them godparents to your children anyway. Maybe your church does something similar?