I would post this in feminism but I've never posted there so .... AIBU to have emailed a company

[changingmynameagain]

Backstory - am looking to get a pop up tent - how boring.

Anyway, stockists locally are a major sports/camping retailer.

I was on the website looking to find out if they had the tent I wanted in stock to go and buy it, but also so that they could demonstrate it to me - how it goes up and down.

Anyway, I'm on the website filling in the "contact us" form and the only options for "Title" are

Mr

Mrs

Miss

Now, call me pedantic but I'm divorced, so I'm not a Mrs. I'm not a never married so I'm not a Miss.

There was NO OPTION for Ms.

For some reason this really got my goat and in the comments box of the page I actually typed

"Oh and for your information there's no option in your title box for Ms. I am divorced, therefore I am not a Mrs. I was married, therefore I am not a Miss. Please could you get some of your IT boffins to insert the option for Ms. In this day and age, I think it is unfair that the only options available on the form for a woman to have as a title refer to her marital status."

And yes, I know it's trivial but it got right up my nose.

I like the Royal Opera House webiste contact form.

Their titles for names are:
Mr
Miss
Ms
Mrs
Dr
Professor
Right Honorable
Sir
HRH
and many many more!

...it's so inclusive, it's wonderful.

CurrySpice, of course not :) But essentially you are designating ownership of a lady through the use of her title. Does she belong to this penis (father's surname) or that one (husband's... or rather, father-in-law's surname)?

I am married btw. I'm very happy being attached (metaphorically - no superglue here!) to my first, and only, husband, for all time. I'm not a cynic on the state of marriage, I just think that when people dismiss these things as having no meaning, are trivial, etc -they really do no justice to the history and context of these things. It counts for a lot, in my opinion. I grew up in a house which never spoke about political or feminist issues, and I suspect many of the women and girls of today honestly don't realise what life could have been like for them if thousands of determined women (and men) hadn't fought to change things on their behalf. We may have not resolved all the issues yet, but by god, I don't like to hear some of the previous generations' achievements to enable us to have a better life, more choice, more freedom, dismissed with "Oh well caring about this trivial stuff means you don't care about Japan" or whatever.

That is what shocks me.

Woops "designating ownership" = "designating male ownership".

I wonder if I should start an AIBU thread ...

Go for it, Mrz.

I believe it's considered poor form to start another thread on here which is FROM another thread, but on other forums I visit it's considered bad form to derail an existing thread into an associated topic which doesn't stick to the main OP.

Nothing stopping you doing it on MN though, just be prepared for a couple of snidey comments maybe (not from me, i prefer to keep threads on track if I can)

In some ways frgr I agree with you

But I just think that I would prefer to reserve my wrath for cases, issues and incidences when women are actually discriminiated against, face prejudice and discrimination, intentionally or unintenionally. Rather than something which is, in essence I think, purely semantics and which gets imho feminists, something of a bad name as picky and sour-faced.

Nobody actually thinks nowadays that someone called Mrs is the property of her husband, shackled to his penis for life (to misue your analogy ) And changing us all to Ms will not stop women being discriminated against.

So, in that respect, I think it's a bit of a red herring

"No HecateQueenOfTheNight it meant any adult female ...missus - ~Mrs is from the 19thC"

Mq = female

Mr = male

and technically Mr is the abbreviation of master not mister"

That's interesting mrz. I didn't know that. I always thought that master = young lad, "young master X" meaning the child of the family. and mr (mister) = adult.

Mind you, now you've said it, I remember period dramas where the servants always talk of The Master and The Mistress.

And I thought the word missus was simply how you pronounce mrs - the shortened mistress.

Well, add that to the long list of things I learned on mumsnet.

Getting to be a bloody long list, that.

Just popped back.
Suppose I got so fed up because I just am not bothered about my title. If I was divirced, I'd be happy to go back to miss, or stay mrs if I felt like it. I think for most of the women in the world who aren't (radical?) feminists, it doesn't really matter about the 'patriarchal connotations' or otherwise. You are Miss, then Mrs if you get married. Just seems so trivial.
I can see why some people would like a different title, but agree with others, Ms is just horrible.

divorced not divirced

If I was divorced I would just go back to Miss-so much nicer than Ms.

Maybe because I don't see either title is important for showing marital status.

As a primary teacher I answer to Miss/Mrs and occasionally Mr and a lovely little Scottish child always called me Mistress

I think there's something rather appealing saucy about Mistress (I don't mean in the context of your Scottish child mrz and wouldn't mind being called it/giving it as my 'title' option, now I come to think of it. Sorry to be dense but does it show/imply one's marital status? If it doesn't then I'm right up for it.

Mrs was originally the shortened form of Mistress -

A woman in a position of authority, control, or ownership, as the head of a household:

A woman with ultimate control over something

A woman well skilled in anything, or having the mastery over it.

A title of courtesy formerly prefixed to the name of a woman, married or unmarried

its got my vote

The Mistress movement is growing

Exotic fruits, How's this for creating a family unit with name: I kept my surname and DH kept his. Together we have created a new and unique family... we are known to friends and family as the CityGirl-EssexBoy family (obviously not real name), a name which no other child in this nation and probably in the world (I gave googled it!) will have apart from our own daughter and any subsequent children. We are all individuals yet linked together as a family unit, and our names reflect that. You see, there is not only one (patriarchal) way to create a family unit.

But I digress....

I find it fascinating that more than one person here said they do not like Ms because of the way it sounds. That feels like a rather superficial reason to me. I personally prefer to choose the option that I believe is RIGHT rather than the option I believe sounds better. In much the same way I choose the ethical option over the fashionable option.

I personally wouldn't mind if every woman regardless of marital status went by Mrs. In many French speaking nations Madame is the default for all, single and married alike. As I've said above, it's not the title that matters, it's what it means. I'd also much prefer to live in a world without titles, but that's a different battle completely.

And anyway, while I am the first to speak up about it, I do not stress about it, because like it or not a single title that is not linked to marital status it the path we'll eventually find ourselves on, since we here in the uk tend to find ourselves around 10-15 years behind the more socially progressive countries.

When I attended a top ranked university overseas 10 years ago, Miss and Mrs already wasn't an option on the application form. This wasn't an accidental omission, but rather a clear message.

It seems to me that those who object to Mrs are the ones who view it as a symbol of loss and those who don't object to it don't impart that kind of power to a word.

I remember the PC guidance from my own university days in the UK TransatlanticCityGirl and forms designed to promote sexual equality... the guidance that we mustn't use actress or headmistress for fear of causing offence to women.

Hardly!

Then what exactly is your objection to a three letter abbreviation?
Does it make you any less of a person ? Different in any way? You are still the same person whatever you call yourself surely??

It's not just the way it sounds, it's the implication that we are all oppressed by men at every turn, and we should FIGHT against every implied 'patriarchal' influence.
I am just happy being Mrs X. Love my husband, wanted to take his name. (again, I realise that not everyone is in this happy situation, just MHO for myself.)

"It seems to me that those who object to Mrs are the ones who view it as a symbol of loss and those who don't object to it don't impart that kind of power to a word"

No. Actually. I couldn't wait to dump my maiden name and become Mrs

"I am just happy being Mrs X. Love my husband, wanted to take his name. (again, I realise that not everyone is in this happy situation, just MHO for myself.)"

But your name does not sum up the love you feel for your husband. You don't love him more than a woman who takes Ms as her title. You don't love him any less than a woman who uses Miss despite being on her 5th divorce. You don't love him any more or any less for the simple reason that whatever you choose to take as your title does not indicate the level of affection, stability or mutual respect that occurs within the context of that marriage.

I think I'm going to give up arguing on these sorts of threads on MN. I just end up repeating the same (obvious, logical) points over and over again, and I get the feeling that the audience I'm talking with doesn't actually read and truly absorb what is being said, but instead comes out with crap that - if you thought about it for even 5 minutes - truly thought in an unbiased, logical manner, without bias towards tradition, upbringing, etc - you'd see are total nosense.

Loving your husband more because you call yourself Mrs or take his name? Check.

People who use Ms are just angry feminists? Check.

You don't care about {insert disaster here} if you have little more to think about in life? Check.

What's in a name - it doesn't define me? Check.

BINGO BINGO BINGO!

Not gonna bother checking back here because I've (yet again) failed to see anything which makes me more sympathetic to Mrs Surname aside from the obvious ones I already knew:
(1. easier family unit for outsiders to understand, no complications, 2. being able to ditch an ugly/disliked maiden name, 3. hate the verbal sound or confusion that Ms brings, 4. quite like the tradition and th good things it stands for, and 5. because some DHs are unenlightened enough to throw a tantrum if a woman doesn't take his name and change title.)

Because I expect to be afforded the same regard that would be given to a man. A man is a man no matter what his marital status. A woman needs to qualify her status at every introduction. I am a person, first and foremost. And if I had to distinguish myself any further than that through a title I would certainly pick something more notable than whether or not I ever got around to signing a piece of paper.

Maybe I'm just lucky though because I was happy with myself and my name before I met my husband. And he is confident and happy in his own right to know that I adore him to pieces without needing any symbolic gesture from me to prove it.

How bloody patronising. Makes me proud NOT to be a feminist in the sense that you mean it. ridiculous people.