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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

I would post this in feminism but I've never posted there so .... AIBU to have emailed a company

192 replies

changingmynameagain · 25/04/2011 15:57

Backstory - am looking to get a pop up tent - how boring.

Anyway, stockists locally are a major sports/camping retailer.

I was on the website looking to find out if they had the tent I wanted in stock to go and buy it, but also so that they could demonstrate it to me - how it goes up and down.

Anyway, I'm on the website filling in the "contact us" form and the only options for "Title" are

Mrs

Miss

Now, call me pedantic but I'm divorced, so I'm not a Mrs. I'm not a never married so I'm not a Miss.

There was NO OPTION for Ms.

For some reason this really got my goat and in the comments box of the page I actually typed

"Oh and for your information there's no option in your title box for Ms. I am divorced, therefore I am not a Mrs. I was married, therefore I am not a Miss. Please could you get some of your IT boffins to insert the option for Ms. In this day and age, I think it is unfair that the only options available on the form for a woman to have as a title refer to her marital status."

And yes, I know it's trivial but it got right up my nose.

OP posts:

Animation · 28/04/2011 08:19

Or how about we have a brand new one - Mq.

Mq = female

Mr = male

mrz · 28/04/2011 08:20

and technically Mr is the abbreviation of master not mister

CurrySpice · 28/04/2011 08:22

Talk about over thinking an issue!!

mrz · 28/04/2011 08:25

I'm just amazed women want to copy men in the form of "title" used ...

Summerbird73 · 28/04/2011 09:05

i love my DH, i am proud to take his name, i wanted it in fact as i was sick of my maiden name, which i took from - wait for it

my father!

this is a no win argument - unless of course you choose a brand new name by deed poll

exoticfruits · 28/04/2011 09:07

I don't see why marital status is such a big deal-I don't care who knows I am married and I didn't care who knew I was unmarried. It seems to be going back to the days when you were 'on the shelf' if not married and it is something to be ashamed of!! I don't know why we want to copy men either. I refuse to be Ms-it seems a dire compromise. I don't use a title much anyway.
We should always be free to use whatever we want. I have no objection to people being Ms if they want-but I object strongly if they want to make all women use it. Too many people want to choose for everyone-they know best-despite what others tell them!

exoticfruits · 28/04/2011 09:09

I like to be in a unit with my DH and DCs with name-I much prefer it to making a unit with my brothers and their DCs.

Summerbird73 · 28/04/2011 09:12

exotic DH and i feel exactly the same, there arent many summerbirds left (in fact only FIL and BIL), so we call ourselves 'The New Summerbirds' it is quite cute really. It is our family unit

I only despise Ms because it sounds silly, i have never liked being called it but wouldnt judge anyone wanting to be Miss Mrs or Ms

shortarsefuck · 28/04/2011 09:16

Exotic - look at it from the other side though.

My POV FWIW is that I am divorced from DH and I no longer want any connection with him.

So, what are the options for someone like me?

exoticfruits · 28/04/2011 09:20

If you don't want connection I would get rid of his surname and Mrs. However if you have DCs you can't sever all connection.

shortarsefuck · 28/04/2011 09:22

I have gone back to my maiden name.

And that is why I personally use Ms.

So I can see why it would be annoying not to have the option of Ms.

I do have DC's with him, but I do not want to be known by his name or have any connection any more than I have to with him

frgr · 28/04/2011 09:26

Summerbird73, you did not swap your father's name for your husband's.

You swapped your father's name for your father-in-law's.

Unless, by your logic, men somehow make their FIL's surname their own, but a woman does not truly make her father's name her own.

Why can men own their father's surnames (so their wives take "their" name), but women cannot (because it's her dad's surname still)?

Can you not SEE the double standard in this attitude?

LadyClariceCannockMonty · 28/04/2011 09:29

GotArt and Summer, I'm interested to read that you think that emails of the kind the OP is talking about serve only to show that the writer is 'a pissy divorcee' (nice turn of phrase, by the way, very respectful and polite ), and that her complaint is just 'doing the 'joke email' rounds now'.

I'm also interested by those people who think this is a non-issue and try to guilt-trip posters who agree with the OP (like me) by suggesting that it's not worth thinking about when Japan is struggling in the wake of the earthquakes etc.

It's offensive in the extreme to suggest that the OP and those of us who agree with her don't care about issues like the appalling situation in Japan. It is entirely possible to be concerned about a range and scale of issues. I'm not going to pretend to any real knowledge of feminist history (although this thread has motivated me to start educating myself), but I'd hazard a guess that a lot of the momentous changes we've seen as our society moves towards gender equality came, at least partially, from people speaking up about 'small' issues like this.

I emailed a company recently about the same issue, because I think it's important. You may be surprised to learn that I have also recently written to my MP about an issue that concerns me as a woman and a feminist, that I have views and concerns about Japan, Afghanistan, AV, censorship and many other 'big' issues as well as 'little' things.

exoticfruits · 28/04/2011 09:37

I can see a place for Ms BUT I think everyone should have a free choice and feminisim should mean we get that choice.
Same with surnames-you don't have to change. I would just feel a bit weird being closer to my nieces and nephews in name that my own DCs-completely up to the individual.

Original poster

changingmynameagain · 28/04/2011 09:37

Well I had decided not to come back to this thread as it was upsetting me but here I am again.

Summer - I am not a pissy divorcee. I take great personal offence at that. You have no idea of my personal situation. You have no idea of the hellonwheels that was my marriage. I have every right to want to leave that man and his name far far behind me.

I would appreciate if you would refer from nasty personal insults as really its unfair and just nasty.

I do care about Japan and earthquakes and all that other stuff - it's not the same, I never ever for one second said that it was the same but it is something that irritated me, I posted on here. That's what this site is supposed to be about, and if only "worthy" topics were discussed, then MN would be a poorer place for it.

I could not care less what anyone wants to call themselves. The point I was making was that I didn't have the choice to call myself something that didn't refer to my marital status.

If you want to be Mrs - great. If you want to be Miss - knock yourself out. But I want a title that doesn't connect me to any man, and just calls me an adult woman - in 2011 what is wrong with that?

I am not a rampant feminist. I am not a "pissy divorcee". I am just a person who wants a title that doesn't label me.

Suppose it was sexuality that was being asked for - it's about as relevant as marital status to BUYING A TENT. Would it be OK to have to state that?

OP posts:

Original poster

changingmynameagain · 28/04/2011 09:39

Oh and men could just be "Mr" but a woman who wanted to BUY A TENT had to state "lesbian" or "straight" and it was a COMPULSORY field on the email form that she had to fill in, she could not leave it blank if she wanted to make an enquiry about PURCHASING A TENT

OP posts:

ullainga · 28/04/2011 09:51

In all honesty, inventing another title was not a good idea. In many languages, there is a title for young girls and title for grown up women, and that's sufficient. So the reasoable thing to do would have been to use Miss for girls, Mrs for women and that's it.

This, unfortunately, did not happen in English - until you were married, you were called by the same title as a little girl. Not difficult to see why many women would not like that - you're not an adult until a man agrees to make you one?

So now if you're using Mrs, you're telling everybody that yes, indeed, you are married, because the title is reserved to married women. Again - why does a camping shop need to know that? Why is it so important to let them know what your marital status is?

In principle i agree that not substituting all female titles with Ms but just adding it to the selection was not actually an improvement. But it's there and for example in US they manage to use it as the default title for women. So I don't quite get the horror of using it as a default title for women - worried that someone might think you are single? More of a woman if you're married? What's so horrible about NOT telling a camping shop about your marital status?

Ps, I'm married. But as my DH does not have to tell everybody daily about his marital status, I don't think mine is relevant for, as Changing said, to BUY A TENT either.

bronze · 28/04/2011 10:05

I hate Ms.
I like the principle just don't like the word. Wish there was a nicer alternative.

Maybe the alternative is to make men use Mstr for unmarried and Mr for married.

exoticfruits · 28/04/2011 10:06

I have nothing against the principle-just think the word is dire.

mrz · 28/04/2011 11:45

actually it did happen in England ullainga until the 19th century

Mr - short for Master (any male)

Mrs - short for Mistress (any adult female)

frgr · 28/04/2011 11:51

Yes but mrz, you should illustrate what happened after that period.

Master = young boy
Mr = man

Miss = unmarried female
Mrs = Married female

Men "graduated" in title terms with age. Women didn't. To become a "woman" they had to attach themselves to a penis other than their father's. Oops I meant surname. Because none of this has a deeper connotation, right?

mrz · 28/04/2011 12:13

As I said perhaps women should reclaim that status rather than meakly follow the example of men with a Ms....

Summerbird73 · 28/04/2011 12:41

er OP it wasnt me who called you a pissy divorcee - check the thread, i did not give out any personal insults. although i accept that i agreed with the poster who did call you that - my apologies, i accept that i know nothing about your situation.

i did however say that 'James' is probably having a laugh at you - i stand by that

i didnt have to take DH's surname if i didnt want to - but i did, and for those who are saying that we 'have to take DH's surname' - we dont. furthermore DH could have taken my surname if he chose to.

DH and I chose to both (and subsequent DCs) have his surname - the key here is choice we all have choice and we dont have to take any name we dont want to

am off now - have made my point, have no interest in labouring it

CurrySpice · 28/04/2011 13:32

frgr I am shaking my head at your description of marriage as "attaching yourself to a penis"

Apart from the fact that it sounds like an unfortunate accident with the superglue it is a pretty dismissive attitude to the marital state of many many MNs! Surely you don't beleive that marriage in 2011 is the equivilant of medieval servitude?!

Signed
Separated-for-4-years-but-not-divorced-and-often-pretty-pissy-of-Essex

4madboys · 28/04/2011 13:45

CURRY ps london 7th may see the otherside

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