To expect this doctor to be in some trouble!!

[stoppinchingthedummy]

Evening ...I wont make this too long!

I went to the doctors earlier today with my DS. He has never slept a night through since he was born. He is now almost 5 and its come to breaking point. None of us are getting enough rest and it is seriously affecting his behaviour and concentration!!
Now im pretty he doesnt have ADHD as some people seem all to keen to label him with however i do need some proffesional advice on how to make him sleep.

Please dont anyone say "Just leave him scream" etc etc ..We have a 2 yr old DD who sleeps really well and if he screams he disturbs her!

Ok so long story short got to the doctors and he started with "So he has conjunctivitis,yes this is common in children blah blah" I replied "no thats not why im here im here for some proffesional advice on how to get him sleeping through the night as he has sleep problems" He then got a bit angry and said i should speak to my h/v. I told him they dont want to know now he is at school. So he then banged his hands loudly on the table,grabbed his hair and gritted his teeth!!! He was really angry!! He was shouting that he is a gp and its not his problem and why am i there!! He made me feel like a complete waste of space then said "ill refer him but now YOUR making it medical and i dont like it" so i left!!

Im so so angry but more than that im upset :( it has taken me weeks to make this appointment because im so terrified they will try to label him :( i just want him to be able to sleep so we can at least know if its the lack of sleep that makes his behaviour bad at times :(

AIBU to complain tomorrow and expect the doctor to apologise to me in person??

Its easy from the outside looking in and say "god get a grip ,sort him out" etc ...I have to say a lot of people who say this to me have either A- not had children or B have not had bad sleepers and for the ones who say it and have they maybe need to sympathise a little. I can look at it and know i need to be harder ,barracade his door ,let him scream but i cant do it i dont know why i just cant!! Its not because i need sleep (well i do need sleep but i am prepared to not have any if i know it will sort it for him) I emotionally can not deal with it ...so maybe you were right and i am nuts ...no point me asking a doctor anyway is there!!!

And, stoppinching - don't cancel the referral. The appointment probably won't come up for months, so if things are still difficult you can take it but if they improve in the interim you can cancel it nearer the time.

Op,I have had my HV out this to help me with DC's sleep issues (DS 5, DD1 3 and DD 2 18 mnths). All 3 have been co sleeping since their dad left, and it's got to be awful for all of us, for example if one of them's poorly they're all kept awake.

Her advice was to sleep train;

• Put them in bed at bedtime (following a wind down bedtime routine)
• Keep putting them back in if they get out, cuddle in their bed if they seem distressed but leave as soon as they've calmed down
• Do this consistently without breaks until they are consistently sleeping through the night.

Started on Monday, DS slept through last night for the first time in 2 years, DD1 waking later each morning (4 o'clock yesterday), DD2 is sleeping 7 til midnight and then waking hourly (but never slept alone until Monday so I think she's doing well).

It's hard, I feel awful, but I chose half term so that the sleep deprivation didnt affect DC too much. In the long run this is going to be of huge benefit to me and DC so I am forcing myself to do it.

Stopping

This has been going on for 5 years.

You eventually, get a referral.

Then you immediately cancel.

Please don't cancel. They will help.

Stoppinching, ex posted with you about knowing what to do but not feeling able to do it.

What particularly do you feel unable to do?

No, you don't have to barricade your son in. The reason you can't is because you don't think it's the sort of thing a loving parent would do. There are gentler ways of training - that people have suggested with the sticker charts etc. Try them. Don't do anything that you find alien to your view of what parenting should be.

stoppinchingthedummy I think there has been some really good advice given here so far.

You already have all the answers, it's just that at the moment it seems easier to let things carry on as they are than it does to face dealing with it and the short term consequences that this will inevitabley bring.

Only you can sort it out by doing what has already been suggested - super nanny techniques. Unfortunately the older they get the harder it is - they are more determined to get their own way at 5, they are physically larger and stronger, can shout louder and are more stubborn.

12 months form now it will be harder still!

I'm sure many of us have been in the situation where one child wakes up another and we're knackered the next day wondering how we will cope.
It's no use asking us who's going to look after your little girl. Unless you've got a friend/family member who can have your daughter for you for a couple of hours the next day you'll have to do what I (and countless other MNers) do and look after her yourself.

As you have said though, this is seriously affecting his behaviour and concentration and so is therefore affecting his development and his ability to fulfill his potential at school, not to mention his home life.

Try posting this on sleep - there is bound to be someone who has gone through this who can show you the light at the end of the tunnel.

Good luck - just think, two weeks from now this could all be sorted out and you could have a full nights sleep - the first of thousands.

I just don't think he's a bad sleeper from what you say stoppin. I think he's totally normal.

But really I am sorry I've upset you. Truly x

Babieseverywhere - i do think he would settle better with his sister in his room but she is such a good girl at bedtime and through the night i dont feel its fair on her

Try it and see what happens. DS does not wake up his sister. Even if he shouts for me (which happens if he wakes up very early and we are still downstairs or if I forgot to open the baby gate when we went to bed. You will be surprised what his sister will sleep through. Plus some kids like to share a room, mine do.

My DS is currently asleep on the sofa as I type, he is not well and fell asleep on the sofa early. I sent DH to spare room as baby is already asleep in out bed waiting for me. I'll carry DS upstairs and try and put him into their room, if he wakes he'll come in with me. Note the 6 month old baby is already asleep, she is a very good sleeper, where as the toddler wakes me up more often the she does..go figure.

It will end and his sleep pattern will settle down at some point, I would try moving your children in together first, bet they love it. As DD said to me, why should I sleep on my own when you have daddy...I can't help but feel she has a point.

Ballstoit i actually can not listen to him breaking his heart- i wish i could tell you why but i just dont know ..Perhaps it started with being a precious first time parent- maybe something to do with my neice being still born a week after he was born ..im not sure however i do know that i can be tough because my dd had a bad week last week and she was left to cry it out by night 4 of being awake and after 15 minutes -ping she slept and hasnt woken like that since ...but with ds i just can't make him feel like he is lonley and scared . Like i said call me nuts ..my op was just about the gp

Bideyin its ok :) I appreciate you apologising . I can see why i come across nuts im not though im just desperate for someone to help :)

So sorry to hear about your niece stoppincing .

I wasnt criticising, just asking. I feel very much the same with my DS. Maybe it's a first born thing, particularly as it must have been such a distressing time when he was born.

I don't think that letting him cry is the answer, I don't like controlled crying at all actually. But I don't think you need to do that.

What I am concerned about is that you are pathologising normal five year old behaviour. I think the GP was very wrong to be so nasty to you but I also think he was very wrong in referring you, unless there is alot more to this than you've said here?

I don't think you should cancel the referral but if you feel you can talk to one of the other 11 doctors at the practice I would make another appointment. You can go through things again just saying you need support and advice. None of us know your situation fully so it is hard to judge whether your ds can 'help' his behaviour or not. Like others have said- you sound tired and frazzelled. Having a gp lose his temper with you is not helpful. yanbu to be upset. I wish you luck.

So, what you need is a way to get him sleeping, without him becoming very distressed. That can be done.

TBH I have not left any of mine to cry this week. Have sat by their beds, rubbing their backs until their asleep.

So, in the evening when he goes to bed, does he go to sleep ok? If not, what does happen?

No i know you werent i just sometimes dont know how to explain myself properly and especially on here when it moves so fast x

I don't think it's necessarily a firstborn thing: I couldn't have barricaded my second child in either; I'd have to try gentler methods first.

Ballstoit- At bedtime we put dd to bed ,all give kisses and say night night ..then put ds to bed,he gets in,lamp on ,read a story- Then kisses and goodnight then we sit by the door till he goes to sleep - if we leave he gets out of bed and cries so we sit- sometimes for up to an hour till he drops off. Recently within an hour he is awake again crying and confused so we resettle him ,reassure him and he goes back to sleep. We can do this up to 5 times before we go to bed then once were asleep the night time wakening begins x

Cory i wouldnt barricade any of my two in i just mean i was more leanient with him with his sleep routine as a baby but i wasnt with dd.

YANBU to be annoyed at the way in which the GP has spoken to you, and for that you need to complain, totally unprofessional even though he may have had a bad day.

YABU though expecting what is a miracle cure. Say you were referred to a specialist and they gave you tips, they would not magically work just like that, it would take a good week or two so i am afraid that you do have to ride it out. My dd 3.11 was the same, and she slept with us for the first year,and still is a variable sleeper. We followed Jo Frosts advice of going throught the bedtime routine:bath, brush teeth, story, then 'say goodnight its time for bed', if your ds comes out of the room again 'repate its bedtime now' then put him back, if he comes out again, put him back in silence, and keep doing that. It will get easier as the week progresses.

Really its sleep training, you are training your child do sleep, there is no quick cure. You are going to have to undo say 4 years of bad habit and that takes time. I have been there, got the t shirt and have walked around like a zombie. Try a night light as well, i have a cd player outside dd room and put her fav night garden cd on when I leave the room, and if she wakes at night. There have been times when i have been exhausted i have thought (but never will do) about putting sleeping pills in dds water. When you are tired you think irrationally. It will work, these things take time

YANBU to complain about the doctor

Keep to a bedtime routine, keep it consistant and keep putting him back, he will learn.

I really feel for you OP. Our daughter also didn't sleep through the night for over 5 years. It was horrible and we were all sleep deprived. Letting her cry it out wasn't an option, it just didn't work, we could leave her over an hour at a time and she would still be going on. She just has an overactive brain, she can't switch off at night and she wakes in the night every so often now. It was just like you described, she would sneak into our bed and we'd get woken by kicking and her rolling around. I still don't know what was causing it. We stopped putting her to bed as early as we were doing as we realised she just didn't need as much sleep as her brothers so putting her to bed early was stressing her out and she just couldn't relax. Best thing that ever happened was she learnt to read and now reads when she goes to bed for an hour or so. She doesn't go to sleep until late (she is now 7) but she is relaxed and she sleeps though as a result. She just needs much less sleep than a lot of children and we were treating her the same as the other two and it just didn't work for her.

On another note, my friend asked for a referral for her near 2 yr old who wakes every night (and he properly wakes up and wants to play!) and the GP was excellent, told her she'd done the right thing coming to see him and referred him to a paediatrician for testing and monitoring to see if there were any underlying reasons. There weren't, but she was reassured and the GP was incredibly supportive. You should expect your GP to support you, sleep is important for everyone and it can affect all areas of health if none of you are getting enough of it.

Hope it resolves itself soon. x

How long does it take to settle him in the evening? If he wakes in the night (after you're in bed), and you wake up before he gets in bed with you is it possile to settle him pretty quickly?

Thank you for replies - Ballstoit in the night if he wakes and i do wake i get in with him to settle him back off ..this is when its tougher because the second i move he wakes ..he sleeps sooo lightly.

Anyway thank you for all the good advice. Im going to bed now before i complain to mumsnet for being so addictive and making me sleep deprived even more :)