To expect this doctor to be in some trouble!!

[stoppinchingthedummy]

Evening ...I wont make this too long!

I went to the doctors earlier today with my DS. He has never slept a night through since he was born. He is now almost 5 and its come to breaking point. None of us are getting enough rest and it is seriously affecting his behaviour and concentration!!
Now im pretty he doesnt have ADHD as some people seem all to keen to label him with however i do need some proffesional advice on how to make him sleep.

Please dont anyone say "Just leave him scream" etc etc ..We have a 2 yr old DD who sleeps really well and if he screams he disturbs her!

Ok so long story short got to the doctors and he started with "So he has conjunctivitis,yes this is common in children blah blah" I replied "no thats not why im here im here for some proffesional advice on how to get him sleeping through the night as he has sleep problems" He then got a bit angry and said i should speak to my h/v. I told him they dont want to know now he is at school. So he then banged his hands loudly on the table,grabbed his hair and gritted his teeth!!! He was really angry!! He was shouting that he is a gp and its not his problem and why am i there!! He made me feel like a complete waste of space then said "ill refer him but now YOUR making it medical and i dont like it" so i left!!

Im so so angry but more than that im upset :( it has taken me weeks to make this appointment because im so terrified they will try to label him :( i just want him to be able to sleep so we can at least know if its the lack of sleep that makes his behaviour bad at times :(

AIBU to complain tomorrow and expect the doctor to apologise to me in person??

stoppinchingthedummy, could you outline your concerns about your DS' behaviour?

I'm no expert, but plenty of posters here are...Perhaps someone might be able to point you towards some sites to look at as a starting point for thinking about what might cause his behavioural issues if it's not just the (lack of) sleep?

I expect the OP went to see the GP as HV won't help once your child is at school and she didn't know what else to do.

The GP was out of order, that is not in doubt.

You need to start a new day tomorrow with your son and tell him he is going to stay in his own bed all night. If he does he gets a sticker. Once he has X amount of stickers he gets X. 5 year olds respond really well to stickers, praise, presents, etc. You will talk about it throughout the day, praise him heaps for going to bed and saying how much fun he will have sticking his star on his chart and to think about what he would like as his prize. Get him to draw a picture of it or cut one out of the argos/elc catalogue.

The GP behaviour was awful especially if there was a DC in the room at the time.

In our area the local hospital runs a sleep clinic for DCs - but referrals have to be via a GP so HV often have to send people to GP to get referred which seems a bit inefficient. I know two families who have used this service and it sorted their problems out. I am not sure any of the advice was rocket science however it was tailored to their circumstances with some emotional support from people who knew what worked for others.

Yes I did say that and I stand by it - all these other thngs have come up after your first post which you say you only let him behave as he does because you can't cope on less sleep than you are getting at the moment.

He hasn't exhibited any behaviour from what you say that points towards seperation anxiety or him being scared - and I spend my day dealing with CAMHS issues so I think I can say that with some genuine foresight. All the clinicians that I work with say work it out the easy way, explain to a child what is going to happen, why it is going to happen and stick to it - so many kids we see have issues due to their parnets having caused a separation anxiety rather than addressed it when it started happening but to me what it sounds like is you just don;t have the energy to attack this now which is sad because you will reap the rewards once you train him to sleep properly in his own bed.

Give it a fortnight - if he doesn;t change I will eat my words but two weeks of shit or even a week at his age is less hassle than having your sleep broken every night for the next 5 years.

My Dr got a bit shitty with me when I took DD1 into our surgery a few weeks ago.

The posters on AIBU were really lovely and said I wasn't being unreasonable to tell him I thought DD had another chest infection (which is what he kicked off about).

It's just the luck of the draw OP (ie don't take it to heart that posters are picking up on things and stabbing you in the eye with them )

Your Dr sounds much, much worse than the situation I had.

I don't give a flying fuck what reason you were there for, you were there asking for help, if he couldn't give it (even if you were going on and on and on at him to help, which I'm sure you weren't) he should never get angry with you.

I came to the conclusion mine was having a bad day, mainly based on the fact that he's been lovely for the 8 years we've been to him.

But to randomly talk like this to you is not on.

What if you were a really vulnerable patient who was trying to tell him something in a round about way?

Make a complaint, if it's just a one off his career won't suffer.

If he makes a habit of it, then those who note these things will start to see a pattern and he can get the help he needs.

Good luck with your DS

And he is manipulative - he says what he does because he can see that it is working - mummy gives in plain and simple - and it isn't because he is nasty at all it is because he is a child and has found something that works so will keep doing it.

Try 'Mummy loves you too honey but tomorrow we are going to do so and so and we can;t do it if we are both tired, now lets put you back to bed and turn your light on and you can cuddle your bear.' You don;t have to be mean just consistent and never ever give in.

The Gp may have behaved inappropriately BUT bloody hell I think you are nuts! I really don't see what the problem is here? Our 5 yr old comes into our bed every night and falls asleep. He can be annoying and if he is I send him back to his own bed, sometimes he complains but really it is MY problem -it certainly not a sleep problem.

Really, get a grip.

There are two schools of thought on children, they are either genuine in their needs and required night time parents OR they are deceitful manipulative children who do not require any night time parenting.

It is clear from the OP's posts that she believes the former (like myself), there is no point in posters expressing the latter opinion in various guises.

OP, I found my toddler settles longer in his room, which he shares with his older sister (4 and 2 years old)
We go for the path of most sleep, so children both go to sleep in same room. They both like the company and whilst the 4 year old usually sleeps though, I have a baby gate on their room which I open when we go to bed and when toddler wakes up he joins us in our wide bed with sidecar cot.

I know he will visit less and less frequently until he sleeps through in his own bed like his sister now does.

Really give him some time and put in place all you can to get the maximum sleep you can.

I also work with children with mild to severe BESD -

Nothing in this thread has made me think this is anything other than a standard sleep training issue

I actually like having my son in my bed (you may not which is your choice and fine) and I think that it is perfrectly natural for him to still want a cuddle from his Mum in the night.

My eldest child learned to sleep ramrod straight because we always used to let him in our bed with a warning that if he thrashed around he was straight back in his own

Oh you poor thing OP - what a crappy attitude from the GP. he may well have had a crappy day but it does't mean you need to bea the brunt of it.

You are not making it medical by asking for further advice and support. Perhaps he has ADHD and perhaps he doesn't. You need a sleep clinic referral but be prepared for some of the advice you've lready had here. It's crap when you are coping with another child too and trying to prevent their sleep being disturbed.

It isnt about not liking him there - i dont feel its healthy for him ,i dont feel he sleeps well enough -activate BESD? sorry im not so great with these abbreviations. Bideyin you can think im as nuts as you like - right now i feel nuts

Bideyin - so do I! On the rare occasion that he doesn't come in during the wee hours of the morning or middle of the night, I have been a bit :( .... but mostly I was afraid that something was horribly wrong and kept going to him and making sure he was still breathing

I will cancel the referral

Sorry, why are you cancelling the referral ?, I'm sure they could help.

Cumfy - because after reading some of the posts on here about it just being lazy bad parenting and i just need to get a grip on my crazy self i shouldnt need him to be reffered eh

Babieseverywhere
OP, I found my toddler settles longer in his room, which he shares with his older sister (4 and 2 years old)

Our eldest DD1 now five is the same - only sleeps well with another DC or one of us in her room. DD1 when put in her own room would get up and get in with us or make up a bed in our room or younger DC room so we decided she was trying to tell us something. We actually for a while had all three DC in the same room - as it seemed to help them all settle but especially her, always a poor sleeper.

Babieseverywhere - i do think he would settle better with his sister in his room but she is such a good girl at bedtime and through the night i dont feel its fair on her .

I really think you need to get some perspective, this is not a medical matter at all. If you are not happy with him in your bed (for whatever reason) take him back. Or why not try another bed in your room for him if he doesn't like to be separated?

Fwiw I'm sorry I called you nuts I just couldn't believe what I was reading! Take some control over the situation. What does your partner think?

activate, we were very similar in our approach- yes, dd you can sleep here, if you keep still

stoppin, why do you feel it is not healthy? do you think he finds it difficult to relax and get proper sleep when he is near you? or do you think it is unhealthy to co-sleep as such? if the former, then you know him better than we do

personally, I remember all those nights when I was missing out on sleep because I was too scared to relax and go to sleep on my own; I don't suppose that was particularly healthy (my parents never knew)- but of course that is not to say that your ds is in the same boat; it may just be a habit

I think it would be worth trying the stickers or something for a week or two; if he is still upset after that period and not getting enough sleep in his own bed, if he doesn't care enough about the stickers to go to sleep quietly- then you will know that he really was worried

but if it works, it works

That sounds like a sensible plan, cory.

Why jump to the conclusion that all sleepless children are manipulative?

Think you have hold of the wrong end of the stick.

I was suggesting that the child was acting normally, but that the OP was letting herself be far too emotionally affected by her DS's pleadings.

Thus encouraging a conditioned response for attention.
All completely unconcious in the child. Not "manipulative" in any sense.

Ha ha Starexpat, thats exactly how I feel :)

cory and activate sorry for little hijack but how old were your dc when you made that rule? DS does kick and thrash about a fair bit and would be lovely to get that to stop or make him realise that this sort of thing will not let him stay in our bed. He's 2y 4mo - is that too early for him to really understand that?

stoppinchingthedummy
Babieseverywhere - i do think he would settle better with his sister in his room but she is such a good girl at bedtime and through the night i dont feel its fair on her .

DS was about 2 when we put DD1 in with him - he loved it - big sis all to himself and she did not mind and slept better. Could you try it over a weekend - or when you have someone around to take turns with naps with - and see if it helps?

Do not cancel the referral - they would be best people to have a look at what your situation is and help your family.