To expect this doctor to be in some trouble!!

[stoppinchingthedummy]

Evening ...I wont make this too long!

I went to the doctors earlier today with my DS. He has never slept a night through since he was born. He is now almost 5 and its come to breaking point. None of us are getting enough rest and it is seriously affecting his behaviour and concentration!!
Now im pretty he doesnt have ADHD as some people seem all to keen to label him with however i do need some proffesional advice on how to make him sleep.

Please dont anyone say "Just leave him scream" etc etc ..We have a 2 yr old DD who sleeps really well and if he screams he disturbs her!

Ok so long story short got to the doctors and he started with "So he has conjunctivitis,yes this is common in children blah blah" I replied "no thats not why im here im here for some proffesional advice on how to get him sleeping through the night as he has sleep problems" He then got a bit angry and said i should speak to my h/v. I told him they dont want to know now he is at school. So he then banged his hands loudly on the table,grabbed his hair and gritted his teeth!!! He was really angry!! He was shouting that he is a gp and its not his problem and why am i there!! He made me feel like a complete waste of space then said "ill refer him but now YOUR making it medical and i dont like it" so i left!!

Im so so angry but more than that im upset :( it has taken me weeks to make this appointment because im so terrified they will try to label him :( i just want him to be able to sleep so we can at least know if its the lack of sleep that makes his behaviour bad at times :(

AIBU to complain tomorrow and expect the doctor to apologise to me in person??

This yesterday sorry i came accross like that ,i didnt mean it like that and i have said im greatful to those who have been nice and helpful . :) x

I wouldn't cancel the referral now you have it

But I would try the training approach and

even if you don't want my parenting advice I'm going to give it

kids are manipulative and they tug at your heartstrings, you know the best thing for your child's development is for him to sleep through and the best thing for your sanity is for you to start to

so steel yourself against it

nighttimes are for sleeping - agree that with him

no shouting or manipulative phrases will get to you because it's sleeptime

cuddles are for morning

you may even be able to talk to him with such confidence that he decides its not worth shouting in the night

either that or co-sleep

Jesus christ.....yes do complain and change doctors too.

sorry i was under the impression a gp is also there for advice

No, not really, unfortunately. I mean, yes, there to advise on medical solutions to medical problems, but not general problems, no.

If you think there is a physical reason for him not sleeping, such as sleep-apnoea, some sort of physical muscle spasms or cramps, or if the lack of sleep is causing other physical problems like hair or weight loss, then maybe. But from what you describe here, it doesn't sound like it is that bad.

Having said that, it's possible the doctor behaved inappropriately in front of a child. The behaviour you describe does sound over the top and it might be worth you complaining, but before you do so, it might be worth considering whether there was any actual harm done. Yes, you're a bit pissed off, but that's about it.

I don't mean that that's acceptable, but sometimes people piss us off. Three people at work have pissed me off this week alone. One of them could be said to be being unprofessional too, but I'm a big girl, I can take it. Maybe a doctor should be held to a higher standard, but I honestly feel that unless they have done something that endangers someone's life then they should just be left to get on with their job, which is making people who are sick, better.

Regardless of the ins and outs of the particular problem OP is having, it is not the case that GPs only help with 'medical' problems. They can refer to behavioural services, CAMHS, counselling etc. Also can provide information on help with parenting, eg parenting courses, support services, family counselling.

IMO the GP sounds like an arse.

I just want to say im sorry for my comment about not wanting parenting advice. Im very greatful to everyone who has been helpful .Thank you :) I will under no circumstances be putting a lock on his door i dont want him to feel trapped . I do not want him to have anxiety I will take the advice of the good people and i will train him properly. Even if i have a week of all nighters

OP - ask your son's teacher/school office to put you in touch with the School Nurse. She is there to support you in place of the HV now that your son is at school, and can refer you to the correct services if appropriate. Hope the sleep training goes ok in the meantime.

Yes aren't you told to go to GP first to get a referral for any behavioural problems? I could be wrong, but in my job, I'm quite sure I've heard that a GP referral is required...

If people are telling you that it's not normal then they probably have other parenting issues of their own going on, and it makes them feel better to make you feel crap about what you are doing. Says a lot more about them than it does about you or your son.

My Gran used to tell me it was outrageously wierd and not at all normal when my baby wouldn't eat a massive portion of mush as she had had 9 babies and they never refused food. It doesn't mean she was right.

If you think the referal would help reassure you then do it. But be prepared for them to just give you advice that you could get out of a book.

most schools no longer have school nurses it is a centrally accessed service that many don't buy into

unfortunately

hence the nit outbreaks etc

want to add my voice to the ones that suggest that a 5yo coming into his parents' bed may not actually be manipulatively taking the piss

I remember my own childhood and I was terrified of nights, of the dark, of my own imagination running riot once I started getting tired

it was nothing to do with lack of discipline- I remember endless hours of lying there staring into the dark hardly daring to breathe

how could that have been manipulative?

some children have more imagination than others

Bearcrumble - he would have said if there was something he was scared of - he doesn't need anything else to use to tug at his mothers heart strings.

And you rproblem was probbably the most mundain shit thing he had to deal with that day - what about if he had heard a long standing patient had just passed away or he had opened his correspondance to find that the lady who he sent for a breast screening had breast cancer and then ytou rock up whinging that your child won;t sleep - I would have had the same sort of reaction.

Lazy parenting is what is going on here and the same old thread thing where you start saying one thing and then lo and behold people don't agree with you and you throw in that you have sleep trained???????

You need to act like a parent and take charge of the situation because any problems which come about by your child not sleeping will be because you did not take charge of the situation and allowed him to manipulate you

:( Cory I agree. Especially at age 5. Still so little. When people say children are "manipulative"... there is always a reason for whatever they are doing, surely?

"Oh god why do i bother .. i didnt say reassure me about my parenting ,reassure me that jack is just a normal boy (not the horrible naughty child he is being made out to be) and that his behaviour will get better etc .."

What sort of "horrible, naughty" behaviour does he exhibit, stoppinchingthedummy?

Did you outline to the GP that your concerns about your DS are wider than the sleep issue (but you were wondering if his behavioural problems have their roots in the sleep issue)?

It's just that if - like posters on here - he thought you had rolled into his surgery asking for medical advice about your five year old sleeping in your bed at night, then I can see why he gave you short shrift (not that his rudeness was acceptable).

Perhaps you needed to be clearer about what you wre actually seeking advice for. I accept that you may well feel that you wren't given the opportunity, however!

In answer to your original query, the GP is clearly on the edge. It must be a very stressful job and he is clearly not having a good time. I would approach it from that angle I were in your position. Explain what happened to the Practice Manager saying that you are concerned about him rather than baying for his blood. I think that would be the decent thing to do.

yes the reason is they want their own way

its natural

but not necessarily good for them

Look on it too from his point of view - if you were actually properly rested wouldn;t you be a better mother, a mother who had more patience, who wasn;t tired all of the time?

This isn;t something you are just doing for you but him and your other child too.

ANd don;t throw the now you think I am a bad parent thing at me because that sin;t what I am suggesting by that comment - I am saying if the sleep deprivation affects you so much it must affect you ability to parent to the highest level that you can and both your children deserve you to.

Yes complain about the GP as he was totally out of order.

Re the sleep. If he is scared, and a lot of children are, you can help to reassure him that sleeping in his own bed is not scary. I would not allow him to sleep in your bed ever again, because you find it disrupts your own sleep. But it will mean short term loss of sleep for you. What we did when DS2 (4.6) was having trouble sleeping we agreed with him that he MUST stay in his own bed, and in return for that we agreed to go in and check on him and give him a kiss and say goodnight every 5 minutes until he was asleep. But there was to be no conversation or silliness. If he got out of bed we held the door shut until he got back into bed (this sounds cruel but he had been literally running about upstairs).

Anyway, it took a week of doing this at bedtime (to make him feel safe) and in the night, and he went back to sleeping through every night without a fuss. He had been genuinely scared and needed that reassurance. It might help you to try something similar.

Just as a short term measure, would it be possible to buy/borrow a bigger bed, side car a cot or something...anything which gives you enough space so you can all sleep properly.
Maybe even put your double mattress on the floor with a single next to it for DS. If he'll sleep on a single next to your bed, then his mattress could be moved in stages to his own room.

Does he have his own room or does he share with DD ?

Notanumber - i fully intended too but he didnt let me , he didnt even look at me!! He lost his rag about 3 minutes in and shortly after i left ...i wanted to discuss everything that happens but nope there was no opportunity.

For those who say its pulling the heart strings ,yea maybe ..but what if he does genuinly have issues with night time like he cries out he does..scared etc ..The thing i find hard on here is i couldnt possibly go through the whole story the post would be so long people would get bored so i try and cut it down to an understandable lever and get shot down for being a lazy bad parent :(

Good luck OP, let us know how it goes

MadameCastafiore I'm sorry but I disagree. It sounds to me as though the child is genuinely distressed - suffering some kind of separation anxiety and it shouldn't be dismissed as being manipulative.

5 year old boys are not known to be particularly good at explaining exactly what's on their mind, especially when they're upset and screaming. The parent may need to do a bit of work at building up trust and find out the reasons for why the little boy is so distressed.

It makes me sad when children are labelled 'manipulative' or 'attention seeking' - they need attention and they need to feel secure. Children are not inherently horrible and in need of taming/controlling.

Babieseverywhere he has his own room and thank you this is another option :) Madame you actually just said "this is down to lazy parenting"

Stealthbear thank you :) and bear crumble too :) To be fair i did get myself a bit het up yet the majority of the posters have been lovely :)

developmentally children need to sleep through

stick a nighlight on and reassure and then no leniency

children become manipulative when we allow them to be so over and above their own good - children manipulate parents all the time