To be shocked on the way the girls are dressed on My big fat Gypsie Wedding

[pigletmania]

I understand that the Gypsie/travelling community have very high morals, why the hell are the little girls dressed like mini lolitas . Flesh everywhere, and dressed in a sexual manner. Its fine for the adults if they want to dress like that and wear those big wedding dresses, but not kids. They are just little girls.

YABU You are not being sensitive to their culture. Don't judge a book by it's cover as they say. It's the way you are socialised that makes you think that the way they dress looks sexual. Travellers are socialised to think this is normal and not sexual.

The documentary was very interesting, and gave some insight into traveller life why should I switch it off because I dont believe that young girls some as young as 6, babies infact are dressing in a sexual manner with clothes designed to attract the opposite sex.

Well saggy many people would agree with me. There is nothing cultural about wearing crop tops, hotpants and 3 inch heels that is not culture.

BTW is sexual even though the intention might not be.

Of course it's cultural piglet!

It's not biological, is it?

I have a real bee in my bonnet about "culture being an excuse" for letting almost anything happen.

I spent a lot of time working with a community [won't name them] 20 years ago. Very young girls would "go on a holiday to see relatives" and some would never come back. At the time we were not allowed to ask any questions by those in authority, we were told "It is part of their culture".
It is only recently that it has been shown that these young girls were being married off while they were away. Laws are now in place to stop this sort of thing happening. It makes my blood boil, that 1)I was too young and stupid to speak my mind at the time 2)The very people who should have been protecting these girls, allowed it to happen in the name of their culture.

Someones culture is not an excuse for inflicting pain or anguish on a large section of that community.

Of course it is cultural. You only see it as sexual because you have been brought up that way and socialised that way in your own culture. Some other cultures think that women who show their ankles are sexual.

i was sat there last night like this

JenaiMarr you speak a lot of sense. Underage girls is a different issue but some of the comments I read earlier in the thread about the style of "Western women" made me rage.
Women are not "asking for trouble" by wearing attention seeking outfits. It is entirely their choice what they wear, not to everyone's tastes and certainly not mine but in no way can it be said they are inviting sexual abuse - that is really outrageous!
Women are in danger of being raped when there is a rapist around; not when they get drunk or dress provocatively. Men are not animals who lose all control of themselves when they catch sight of a short skirt and it is insulting to all men to suggest so. Do people really think girls in sensible trouser suits never get raped???

I couldn't agree more, Quick.

But I don't think allowing girls to prance about in crop tops inflicts any pain or anguish.

Sorry Jenai should have said I was talking about "grabbing" I was responding to something said on the previous page.

I don't for one minute agree with the sentiment that girls or women dressed provocatively are 'asking for it' Nobody is asking for it. And rape is a crime more about power than sex.

Thank you Buzz - you have made me think with your comments. That's a good thing, right?

Excuse me whilst I splutter and choke, but why has no one pulled bubblewrapped up on this comment?

"no doubt I will be flamed here, but when women go out with a skirt showing their ass, and cleavage falling out of their top, with belly on display, they are hardly saying "dont look at me"...

yes, women should be able to wear what they want, but dressing in a provocative way that attracts attention IS asking for trouble.

Of course it doesnt mean that a woman should be raped for wearing those sort of clothes, but the message a woman dressed like a prostitute sends out is that she wants attention.. decent normal men will avoid a woman like that, some blokes will think she is fair game to treat like shit..

thats the way the world is.."

Lovely view you have there

The same way my brother automatically gets picked for fights because he looks big and brawny and people out there simply fancy "having a go" ...

Or maybe the same way my childhood friend was raped when her family moved up North in the country I'm from because she [quite legally] simply had the audacity to wear a skirt that fell just below her knees when visiting a friend ...

Perhaps the fact I sometimes wear bright red lipstick screams out that I am wanting attention from people who would deign to attack me ...

Or hey, maybe a woman bent over in a shop once and a man who got an eyeful down her top and thought, "Oh yeah, she definitely wants it!" was justified in thinking that she wanted the wrong sort of attention ...

I could go on and on, but I shall stop as it isn't really directly relevant to the thread topic. However, I simply couldn't stand by and have a view like that go unchallenged.

As you were ...

PS - On a more related note, in my culture pre-colonisation, it was practice for women leave their breasts bare and uncovered. There was no shame in it whatsoever. The missionaries put a stop to that as THEY thought it was indecent, yet no one in my tribe would have done. We still do the same for certain ceremonies and rituals. Culture should not be used as an excuse for unacceptable behaviour - but unacceptable behaviour in itself is completely relative; it all depends on who's asking/looking.

Exactly Plexi, acceptable is in the eyes of the beholder.

woman have to take some personal responsibility for their actions

old fashioned view yes but i believe it to be true

Just because i dont agree with young girls dressing in this way, does not mean that i think that women who dress a certain way are asking for it. Nobody should be raped wether they are wearing a short mini skirt and crop top, or a tent dress.

Yeah, but as cleverclogs says, "woman have to take some personal responsibility for their actions".

Obviously men just can't help themselves when they see a woman in a short skirt

That i dont agree with, a man will rape whatever, I have heard of men raping elderly ladies do you think they were wearing provocative clothing . Nobody should be raped whaever attire they have on.

If we accepted all behaviour as 'just their culture' then there would be no need for a group like Amnesty International

Don't be ridiculously hyperbolic. Since when is wearing lycra skimpies the same as women being stoned to death for adultery?

You do not simply "accept all behaviour as just culture". You look to see what harm if any is being caused AND if the people who live within that culture think they are being harmed/are afraid/feel oppressed/are mistreated. It's an objective AND subjective test - it must be, or else you could be as guilty of perpetuating the same sort of harm you seek to end.

PS - I would love to see clevercloggs' response to the fact that women of all ages/sizes/dress can and are raped - who then should take some responsibility for their "supposed action" in encouraging people to rape them? The old? The young? Those who wear a blouse that's ill-fitting across their chest? Those who wear bikini tops? I am seriously interested in where you would draw the line.

Why don't rapists take responsibility for their actions and stop raping people? Why is it the woman who should take on the (impossible) responsibility of not being raped?

I've just watched some of the programme to see what all the fuss was about. All I can say is you are missing the obvious reason for the, ahem, minimalist clothing. There isn't a lot of wardrobe space in a caravan!

I wonder what they do with the marquee-style wedding dresses when they've finished with them?