To think it's about time we could choose the sex of our babies..

[Articulate]

Provided we already have one of the opposite sex. Horrible story in the DM (yes, I know)..about an Australian woman aborting healthy twin boys because they wanted a girl.

Yes, utterly vile and unnacceptable, but couldn't this have been avoided if she could have chosen the sex?

Like I said , only if you already have one of the opposite sex (or two maybe)...

Of course it figures.

This pink frilly shit is a massive red herring. Most little girls like that pink shit for about a year.

Then they turn into independent confronational jean-wearing children who push back the boundaries. But they are still our daughters not our sons and to say that there is no difference, only human souls, no gender, well I find that quite trite tbh.

Gender is a part of our identities, whether we are 'pink' or not. Femininity is more than just 'pink' and shopping and chatting, which seems to come accross on threads like these. If you want a girl you are pressurising a human being into being Barbie.

Well I didn't get the relationship I wanted with my daughter, not at the moment anyway, but I am still glad that I have her, as a female. Her gender is hers on her own terms, but I'm still glad she's a girl.

As technology stands, even with small advances I don't think there would be a huge demand for gender selection. A couple who are able to conceive naturally would have to have an overwhelming preference for one gender to choose the much harder option of IVF to produce their children.

The only way it might become more mainstream, and this would be a long way in the future, is some form of pre-conception treatment. Maybe a pill taken by the man to selectively destroy all his X, or all his Y sperm. Or a gel to alter the hormone balance of the woman's reproductive system to only accept one sex of sperm. I don't think scientists know enough about gender selection to develop these at the moment, but I may be wrong.

I don't see how any post-conception method would be ethical, acceptable and safe for widespread use.

Did these parents give any thought to how their three oys will feel when they discover their parents aborted their brothers.

If they do end up having a girl, will the three boys resent her because she replaced their brothers.

I shiver when I think tht people can casually abort two babies solely because they are the wrong sex.

Valium, of course gender is (a small) part of our identities. The XX chromosome has its part to play, along with all the other chromosomes.

But it has such subtle and unpredictable effects, that you can't say in advance what a girl or woman will turn out to be like. Give me one "feminine" characteristic and I will show you many women who don't have that characteristic (and probably quite a few men who do).

I think gender is a middling to large part of my identity actually. I wouldn't dismiss being female as a small part of my identity.

You can write a thesis on it, but it doesn't make it wrong for a woman to want a daughter. You're all happy with your sons, excellent, excellent, but don't tell another woman that she is wrong to want a daughter!! That's just trying to control another person's very reasonable thoughts.

Noone is saying that she is wrong for wanting a daughter.

The objection is to aborting two sons in order to get the daughter.

If we assumed that you can choose the sex of your baby. Wouldn't it cause a lot of problems for society in the future, if there was a definite bias towards one sex more than the other?

If gender selection resulted in a shortage of females in places like China, would that not result in females becoming more valued in the long term and this can only be a good thing for women, surely. Eventually the world would come to realise that both genders are of equal value and importance for the continuation of the human race and perhaps we would eventually see an end to women being treated as 2nd class citizens in some parts of the world.

Even if you followed this through and had people selecting physical characteristics, you would probably find that we all want different things anyway, so it would all even itself out in the end. Most people don't have a hankering for a blond haired, blue eyed child and I think the majority wouldn't bother choosing characteristics/gender anyway. I know I wouldn't have chosen, as I wanted the babies to be the ones I has iyswim

"ValiumTinselton Fri 07-Jan-11 21:06:42
Well then if you're not anti IVF, how can you differentiate between the health risks you mention wrt normal IVF and IVF for sex selection??"

To me, IVF is a medical solution to a physical problem with the body. I view it in the same way as using chemotherapy to cure cancer. Infertility is a medical condition with a radical medical solution (when it works).

Wanting a baby of a particular sex in NOT a medical condition. Not in my opinion, anyway.

I think the opposite scenario would be more likely karmabeliever - less women would equal less power for women.

Women would probably kept in rape camps for sexual gratification and reproduction only.

They already do have facilities via IVF for gender selection where it is within a family where genetic conditions are concerned within a specific sex.

Slightly off topic but for DC2 I was going to look into PGD which specifically picks out embryos with a genetic condition. Some family members were horrified at this (deeply religious family members) but I felt it would prevent another child from suffering, where it could be avoided.

Despite nearly going down the PGD route I don't agree with natural sex selection. I understand wanting to avoid having a sick child, I don't understand the concept of wanting a certain sex. I think those people are unappreciative and spoilt quite frankly and if they don't consider themselves blessed enough to have a healthy child in the first place they are moronic.

Agree reindeer, and I can totally understand sex selection to prevent a child from suffering a serious medical condition.

Completely agree.

I can understand fully wanting to avoid medical conditions, but I agree with Reindeer, any other reason shows a spoilt person who doesn't appreciate that a healthy child is a blessing! They are extremely lucky and should count those blessings. I pin my hopes on the fact that ethics stop us ever having the choice.

I agree it is a problem which should not come, as we say in my family, on the top of the sympathy list...

However I was thinking about this thread overnight and wondering what I would have done if I had the option, during our next ivf treatment (a frozen embryo transfer) of picking the sex of the embryo to be transferred. I would never have gone down the route of artificial conception unless we had to for medical reasons, but, having to do so anyway, it is probable that, given the option of picking the gender, I would have done so, and picked a girl. I suppose in part because I am a women and like the idea of passing on the benefit of my experience to a daughter. Also, while everyone is of course an individual, there are qualities/characteristics/personality traits which I think are more likely to occur in different genders. And I don't mean 'pinkness'... Interesting issue!

But then, if I'd been able to choose the first time round, I wouldn't have had my lovely boy. So I'm glad i couldn't.

After reading this thread last night I had a terrible dream. I was carrying twin boys and lost them and the doctor told me it was my fault for wanting a girl. :( (Which I don't...DH and I are going to start TTC DC#2 soon, but I don't care about the gender.) It was horrible. I'm pro-choice, but the loss of those two little boys is so sad to me. Just because of their gender...

Yeah, that was extreme CY. I support anybody's right to want one sex or the other. But aborting on grounds of sex is madness........ You love what you get. SOmetimes you just want more.

You'd never send your kids back. But that doesn't stop people thinking 'I don't have a daughter' or *I'd have loved a son'

I abhor the whole idea of selecting the sex of the baby. Firstly because it could lead to 'fashions' in gender, leaving whole generations struggling to find partners of the opposite sex in adulthood. How selfish is that! Secondly, because it takes away the magic and beauty of the gift of a baby, and makes it a commodity, an accessory. The only exceptions are for medical reasons, ie genetic disorders passed on to specific genders.

Choosing the sex of your baby? Awful thought! Leave things to mother nature.

On the other hand, we ARE all worried about over-population in the world, are we not? Well, if people were allowed to choose, there would be a sharp decrease in the populations of, for instance, China and India within a generation. Baby boys are their first choice.

I'm jesting, but you see what I'm getting at?