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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think it's about time we could choose the sex of our babies..

227 replies

Articulate · 07/01/2011 16:38

Provided we already have one of the opposite sex. Horrible story in the DM (yes, I know)..about an Australian woman aborting healthy twin boys because they wanted a girl.

Yes, utterly vile and unnacceptable, but couldn't this have been avoided if she could have chosen the sex?

Like I said , only if you already have one of the opposite sex (or two maybe)...

OP posts:
Hulababy · 07/01/2011 17:16

The news story sounds vile.

However it does not mean we should be choosing our baby's gender. A baby should be a blessing and wanted for the simple fact it is a baby.

People should start to think things through more and realise that they are lucky to have a baby at all and be happy for the baby they get.

flossymuldoon · 07/01/2011 17:17

I would have been just so grateful to have had to the opportunity to have a child of my own of ANY gender, but sadly it isn't ever going to happen - even after numerous IVFs.

Adoption is NOT the easy route that people think it is. The approval process is brutal with every aspect of your life broken down into detail, and rightly so. The children are not 'unwanted babies', they are children that haven't had the best start in life with neglect/abuse etc.

I agree with ewe in that this is indicative our 'I want I want' society

MmeLindt · 07/01/2011 17:18

Even if this is restricted to those who already have one of each, once we start to allow prospective parents to decide on the sex of a child, we are on a slippery slope of eugenics.

Where does it end? Is it any less morally right to decide on the sex of a child than the hair colour, or the temperament.

My husband suffers still from being a shy child, and wishes he were more self-confident. If we find a "self-confident" gene, could we ensure that our children are born more confident?

I struggle with my weight, which is thought to be hereditary (up to a certain point). Can I say that I only want a slim child?

Where do we stop tinkering?

amothersplaceisinthewrong · 07/01/2011 17:18

Dreadful idea. Certainly should never be available on the NHS.

minipie · 07/01/2011 17:19

Totoro that is really sad.

Actually, for me, that would be a reason against allowing gender selection. One girl child does not "replace" another girl child, surely - children aren't defined solely by their gender. What if they had a girl and it was nothing like their first daughter - would they feel disappointed?

MmeLindt · 07/01/2011 17:20

"I can see that babies are being aborted because of it."

But this is not a common occurrence, is it? And most people find it a horrific thing to do.

MmeLindt · 07/01/2011 17:21

trixie
Why do you say that the "slippery slope" argument is not valid?

LisasCat · 07/01/2011 17:21

But what if the cultural preference towards one ended up leading to unbalanced populations, as in China? Say every family who had a girl was then allowed to 'select' a boy, but every family that had a boy just stuck with that one child? You'd end up with a ratio of 2:1 boys:girls.

wannaBe · 07/01/2011 17:23

yabu.

As for the "why don't they just adopt" line, well apart from the fact that adoption really isn't the easy route to parenting, do people really think that someone who is that selfish as to abort a healthy pregnancy on the basis it doesn't fit their description of what is right would make suitable adoptive parents to a child that is probably already damaged? I don't think so. Most children that are adopted already have issues of abandonment etc, imagine adding the knowledge that they were adopted in order to fulfill their new parents' desire for a boy/girl into the equasion.

And I really fail to see this desparation for one gender over the other - surely that is based purely on stereotypes.

What happens if your lovely little girl who you imagined in pink dresses turns out to be a thomboy with no interest in girly things? Or your imagined boisteress boy grows up to be a ballroom dancer, or gay?

Babies are not a right; and children are individuals in their own right, not trophies that you can order to a specific design.

Lulumaam · 07/01/2011 17:31

People tend to want one sex more than the other to fulfil some notion or dream or wish that they hold.. and having a baby to fulfil a specific idea etc is a slippery slope

it is selfish

people do have babies for all sorts of reasons, many of them selfish, and to perpetuate themselves etc.. but for me choosing a gender would be a step too far

people need to ask themselves why do they want a baby of a partiular gender.. what if that child does not live up to their expectations? how worthless would the children of the opposite gender feel?

saw a programme about this last year and it was so sad .. the lives put on hold, the money spent, the heartache to have not just a baby but a girl/boy/

and more often than not, it seems to be a girl ( in the western world certainly ) that is the preferred gender

trixie123 · 07/01/2011 17:33

Mme Lindt because it assumes that at no point can we decide that one action is ok whilst another is not. It assumes that as a race / society / individuals we lack control. One of the standard argument for keeping cannabis illegal for example is that it is a "gateway" drug and that most users of harder drugs also have smoked cannabis. However, there are many more people who have and do smoke cannabis without any intention of ever going near anything harder. A slippery slope is not an inevitability and using it as an argument against one specific idea in case it leads to something else misdirects attention from the issues with the thing that has been proposed. So in this case, gender selection has arguments both for and against and it is not necessary or relevant to bring in the "where does it stop?" question and talking about the Nazi eugenics programme (which was about selecting those fit to breed).

FindingStuffToChuckOut · 07/01/2011 17:34

If you really think it should be acceptable to choose the sex of your babies, why qualify it by saying but only if you already have one and want the other sex??? Seems like you think we should be able to determine the sex of our babies but ONLY IF WE FOLLOW YOUR RULES about what is OK to want & what is not? Wanting one of each is fine, wanting two girls/or boys is not & therefore you would be exempt from choosing. So you want to mess with nature, but keep in check with nature at the same time? See how overly complicated it's getting already?

How vile, bizarre & VERY unreasonable.

MrsPennySworth · 07/01/2011 17:35

I can understand someone having a slight preference if they only have children of the other sex (not everyone, just some people). I had 2 boys and I did secretly want a girl the third time (which I did) but if I had had a boy then that baby would have been just as wanted and loved. We decided before we started trying again that we were trying for another child whatever the sex - NOT a girl.

But this story is vile and I don't think people should be able to choose the sex. All children are a blessing - people should be thankful for them.

Purely out of interest (a friend was talking to me about this so I googled it), you can pay for sex selection treatment in America - it costs about £12k. Just to be clear, I would never be interested in this, was just interested to read about it !

This same friend that was telling me about this also had 2 boys and did admit to me that she wished she coud find out the sex really early on the pregnancy so she could decide whether to go ahead with it... obviously I was Shock at this. Really not nice Sad

FindingStuffToChuckOut · 07/01/2011 17:36

as for the story, well those people will have to live with their decision for the rest of their lives, as does everyone who, for whatever reason terminates a pregnancy.

I hope for their sakes & the sake of their family, their kids don't find out about what they did.

ByThePowerOfGreyskull · 07/01/2011 17:38

The world would have the problem they are getting in China, too many young pampered men and not enough women to go round, the human race would die out.

minipie · 07/01/2011 17:39

Agreed wanneBe and Lulumaam

I think this is best illustrated by asking the parents "Why do you want to have a girl and not have a boy?"

Pretty much all the time*, the answer will rely on some assumption about characteristics that a girl would have, that a boy would not have.

There is no place for such assumptions and they often turn out to be wrong.

*an exception might be if they wanted to avoid a genetic disease that only boys carried.

pawsnclaws · 07/01/2011 17:42

I understand having a preference - but to act on it to the extent of medical treatment? To talk of gender disappointment in terms of a disaster and devastation? Well in the grand scheme of things I think I'll reserve my greatest sympathy for those who will never have children or who have lost a much-loved child.

One of DH's friends got married today - he is currently undergoing treatment for cancer and will never have a biological child. He has spent the last two years on an adoption rollercoaster, but has now accepted that may also never happen. Prior to that were several unsuccessful IVF attempts.

I have given birth to four boys, three survivors one stillborn son - and I consider myself the luckiest woman alive to have three healthy children. Would I love a daughter? Yes of course. But life doesn't work that way, and I don't see how and why the NHS should devote precious resources to changing that fact.

flossymuldoon and others that have been through genuine heartbreak - I'm so sorry. I can't imagine what you've been through.

Eglu · 07/01/2011 17:46

Yes, people have that much of an issue, and like I and others have said, these people need counselling, not the opprtunity to choose the sex of their child. If it is that much of an issue to them, then there will be something else that isn't perfect about their child.

MrsPennySworth · 07/01/2011 17:50

minipie I don't know for sure but I know that my reasons for my slight preference to having a girl the third time (and I say slight because I honestly would have been happy with a boy as well!) was not to do the 'girly' things growing up but I always thought about when my children would be adults and, with my boys, I would be the dreaded MIL !!! (Although obviously not on purpose !).

It just seems that more often than not, when girls get married/have children they turn to their own mums to help them and involve them more. God forbid the MIL should get involved ! Grin

But then, my little girl might grow up to never marry and decide she doesn't want children. Fair enough, I'd be happy whatever she did!

Funny thing is that I was the opposite to most people in that I always dreamed of having boys before - I have no idea why! I would have been happy with 3 boys/3 girls though - they're all my babies Smile

earwicga · 07/01/2011 17:53

YABVU

50 Million Missing Campaign 50millionmissing.wordpress.com/

[[http://www.economist.com/node/15606229 Gendercide:
Killed, aborted or neglected, at least 100m girls have disappeared?and the number is rising]]

I'm actually disgusting that this would come up as a legitimate idea, ever.

earwicga · 07/01/2011 17:54

50 Million Missing Campaign

cory · 07/01/2011 17:57

agree with minipie; the idea that you can have what you want is going to set people up for disappointments even if they do get the desired sex

why you would you want a child of one specific sex if you did not have a very strong idea of what that sex would offer

and what if your individual child didn't?

my mum was delighted to have a girl as her second child- but I have always been aware that her expectations of femininity were not met in me

pawsnclaws · 07/01/2011 17:58

earwicga that is terrifying - I had no idea the problem was getting worse. Who can forget those terrible pictures of a baby girl lying dead and unwanted in the gutter of a Chinese town? Or the documentary I saw a while ago featuring a young Chinese man in his 20s - no hope of finding a wife and having his own family, because of the grossly distorted gender imbalance in his region.

Eglu · 07/01/2011 18:00

minipie put it much better than I did.

I do agree that families with genetic gender specific illnesses ahould be allowed to choose.

minipie · 07/01/2011 18:05

MrsPenny I do understand, but then again that's based on a stereotype of MIL relationships and mother-daughter relationships.

There's no reason you couldn't have just as close a relationship with your adult son as with your adult daughter. In fact I know plenty of women who don't have a great relationship with their mother, and plenty of men who do.

So I would say don't worry about the "interfering MIL" stereotype and just treat your son the same way you'd treat a daughter. Otherwise, you'd just be perpetuating the myth that sons aren't as close to their mothers.