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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

have had enough and gone back to bed

219 replies

VivaLeBeaver · 25/12/2010 10:55

They can sort fucking dinner out. Was doing the veg and dd hit the dog. Dog screamed, ran into the table and screamed again. Dd is nine and terrorises the dog for no reason. Am at my witd. End. It'll bite her one day. So i start yelling at dd and dh who saw everything yells at me for yelling at her. Merry fucking xmas.

OP posts:
spikeycow · 27/12/2010 10:25

If it was a child this thread would be up to a 1000 posts already. What people fail to realise is people choose to invite pets into their home and animals have the same rights as children, to be fed and kept from harm. This child, if she were being beaten in her home, at her age could tell someone. A dog, like a smaller child, cannot even do that. It's not "just a dog". This is very very serious.

VallhalaLalalalalalalalaaaaaa · 27/12/2010 10:26

Dives in to wave wildly at Spikey. :o

Hiya, welcome back, you've been noticable by your absence!

Sorry, back to the topic in hand.

I think that the OP hasn't returned because she doesn't want to do the thing which the majority have said is the morally correct, decent thing - ie have the dog rehomed. To me there is no option as she is not willing/able to prevent an ongoing situation whereby her child is repeatedly allowed to hurt and terrify a living creature.

I would urge the OP to remember this. ATM she and her DH are committing a criminal offence. Within a year her daughter will be legally culpable and could end up in front of a court.

Or bitten.

Or both.

I stand by my offer of finding that dog a home or place in a no kill rescue and I emphasise that I work for the dog, not anyone else, including myself - it is the dog's best interests which will be paramount.

spikeycow · 27/12/2010 10:27

What do you mean an animal is not a human. Er, so what? Are you saying the lowest form of human, cruel, sadistic and evil, is worth more than an innocent animal just for being human?

VallhalaLalalalalalalalaaaaaa · 27/12/2010 10:31

*Spikey8, I'd typed out several responses to that particularly offensive or ill-worded comment by Jugglingjo but couldn't find words sufficient to express my incredulity and disgust without becoming abusive.

jugglingjo · 27/12/2010 10:32

Hi Spikeycow -

I don't remember saying that !

spikeycow · 27/12/2010 10:34

You said an animal is not a human so reading between the lines that is what I came up with. Regardless of animal or human, abuse is vile. One is not worse than the other.

jugglingjo · 27/12/2010 10:36

Vallhala -

Good to know you check your posts to make sure they aren't becoming abusive, to people who are only trying to help and support one another with life's problems.

jugglingjo · 27/12/2010 10:38

Yes spikeycow, as I've said we can show compassion to people and animals.
Or animals and people if you prefer.

spikeycow · 27/12/2010 10:39

Yes God forbid posts should become abusive when an animal is being battered in its own home. Val is keeping calm hoping the OP will see sense and ask for her help.

clam · 27/12/2010 10:42

Er... where is the OP?

spikeycow · 27/12/2010 10:42

OP are you reading this thinking we are all over reacting? Come back and talk, or PM Val if you want. This is very worrying, don't backtrack. Just because your daughter is OK with the dog sometimes doesn't mean a thing. It just makes it more abusive if anything

VallhalaLalalalalalalalaaaaaa · 27/12/2010 10:43

Wink @ Spikey

differentnameforthis · 27/12/2010 10:44

An animal is not a human

No, it isn't. It's a animal. An animal that when pushed just a little too much one day, will attack the child. Then what? The animal gets PTS because it retaliated after years of beatings. Beatings that hurt so much, it screams & runs! But that's OK....cos it isn't human!

What if it were her dh beating the dog? Would it be ok for us to say what we are, or should we find some compassion there too?

Goblinchild · 27/12/2010 10:44

As Val well knows, I'm not that keen on dogs, nor do I know much about them. I've already given my views on that aspect.
However, I do know quite a lot about children and their development and emotional well-being.
For a nine year old to be allowed to relate to another living creature by treating it as an object to frighten, and laugh at its reaction is not good for that child.
It's not OK, it's not what normal should look like and it does not bode well for her future if the two adults in her life either won't or can't stop her.
She needs to be given clear messages about how she treats other lifeforms, and that she should be respectful and considerate of them at all times. That should be the message that she's getting from school, you don't hurt other people and you don't scream at them and terrify them. She should be getting the same message from home.
If you can't cope OP, you need to access support from outside the family; GP, counselling services, parenting classes. Retreating and denying is not a viable parenting strategy and you are harming your daughter's development by doing so.

VivaLeBeaver · 27/12/2010 10:52

Right I am back, and would like to address a few points.

Someone asked how hard the dog has to be hit to scream? She'sa greyhound, she's a known screamer, the vet even laughs about the fact that she screams at the vets before she's had an innoculation. When she's going out for a walk if she stands on a stone or gets snagged by a bramble she screams.

The house is plenty big enough for a large dog and she gets walked for 90mins a day.

There is no violence or aggression in the house that DD is picking up on. Hmm Nor do I think that DD is going to grow up to be a delinquent or a serial killer. I am not allowing this behaviour at all. I am trying to sort it out. I do believe I can sort it out and this is what I'm trying to do. I'm not currently rehoming the dog because I believe this can be sorted, I love the dog and I'd be worried about where the dog may go. And yes you can all snigegr away and say she could go somewhere where she isn't hit. I know that but like I said I am going to sort this out and do believe she could end up somewhere worse than this. She's a member of the family and I'm suprised to be honest so many people are saying to rehome her so quickly when normally people here are slated for being so quick to rehome their dogs. When we got the dog she was nervous of people, had never lived in a house before. She is still nervous of strangers and will pull away on the lead when we're out to avoid people.

We've had her over 2 years and this has only been going on for about the last 4 months. The situation that I believed started it is a time when DD leaned over the dog to get to a plug socket behind the dog, dog was asleep and obviously started the dog who jumped up and snapped and caught DD on the end of the nose. Please note that DD had never hit the dog prior to this. She had been told about leaving the dog alone on her bed, etc but I think she just thought as she wasn't actually touching the dog that the dog would remain asleep. She learnt a big lesson that day and now won't go to the plug socket. I explained about how she should have come to me and I'd have spoken to the dog to let hte dog know I was there, etc before leaning over her.

Anyway the dog is normally very well behaved. She's been to training classes and has fantastic recall and she will go back to her bed and lie down when I tell her to most of the time. She would never lie down if DD tells her to and also the dog ignores me in a couple of situations. Mainly if the fridge is opened or if someone is walking across the room with a plate of food or in the morning when I'm getting DD ready for school. At these times she's like a cannon ball, charges across the house and flattens anything in her way. Its been at these times that DD has hit the dog, its still no excuse and its not a reason and I am not condoning it, just trying to set the scene. The dog is very food orientated and won't calm down in these situations. In hte morning when I'm getting DD's shoes/coat on for school the dog is going nuts, in a happy, excited way but again flattening anything in her way, barging past people and jumping up. I have to send DD halfway up the stairs to keep out the way while I put the dog's lead on and then tie the dog up for 5 minutes in the garden while I get DD ready. DD says that the dog scares her when she does this and I can only think that she's lashing out thinking that attack is the best form of defence. I've told DD that the dog isn't been agressive in these situations and I think she does know that but still finds it a bit scary and does get hurt by the dog (as I do) when she runs over your foot with her claws out and whips you round the face with her tail.

We did have a couple of sessions with a one on one personal trainer for the dog and she gave us some tips/advice but to be honest I thought it was nothing I wasn't already doing. It hasn't made any difference. I'm going to see in the New Year about a different trainer that someone has recommended and see if he will come over and try and help.

OP posts:
Animation · 27/12/2010 10:52

Bloody Nora!!

The hysteria!!

Cor Blimey my san.

spikeycow · 27/12/2010 10:59

Is the dog trainer going to include your child in the training? Are you going to tell them the child is hitting the dog? If you are serious about fixing it you have to be honest from the start.

VivaLeBeaver · 27/12/2010 11:02

Of course I'll be honest, there's no point in not been. Why on earth would I lie to a dog trainer? If he wants to involve DD then I'm happy for that.

OP posts:
VallhalaLalalalalalalalaaaaaa · 27/12/2010 11:06

"I love the dog and I'd be worried about where the dog may go. And yes you can all snigegr away and say she could go somewhere where she isn't hit. I know that but like I said I am going to sort this out and do believe she could end up somewhere worse than this."

LET ME GET SOMETHING STRAIGHT HERE!

I am a rescuer and am one of those who not just suggest you rehome but have OFFERED TO HELP, from start to finish. There is NO FUCKING WAY I would allow this or ANY dog who comes through my care to go somewhere worse than she is now.

Perhaps you'd like to read a few of my posts on Doghouse before you go around making insinuations to the contrary.

Your Grey sounds as if she is, and sounds as if she is behaving like a stereotypical Grey. That she is a Grey is worse in some ways - she has less fat and fur coverage than the average dog to protect her when she is being hit by your child. She will also have probably come from a rescue, who would be appalled at what is going on and who would want to take THEIR dog back - because most rescue dogs go out on contract with the rescue having final say over the dog.

And as a former rescue Grey she is presumably ex-racing stock, so she will have had moe than her fair share of abuse already like as not.

I warn you now, as a dog who may well have been abused in the past you have a higher than average chance of the dog biting your child or someone else - and being PTS as a result - if your child continues to be allowed to abuse her.

And, as I said, you and your DH are breaking the law. In less than a year, if this continues until your child is 10, she will be too.

Yoe ARE allowing the dog to be abused, please don't try and make it something it's not.

Animation · 27/12/2010 11:06

Whoa - hol your horses!!

Might be no need for a dog trainer.

The problem could be that mum has spent ALL Christmas on MN.

The child might just need a bit of one-to-one time.

differentnameforthis · 27/12/2010 11:11

Sorry op but I am Hmm about your latest post.

The thread has gone from dd hitting the dog (not accidentally knocked him while she was playing) beating it, running up to it screaming, to it only happening every 6-8 weeks, to it only happening when the dog startles her!

Which is it? Because all I saw in your last post was excuses as to how your dd 'disturbed the dog' who snapped & got her on the nose and how it goes off on a tangent for food. And no one can control it during this time. So now it is the dog's fault.

It is all excuses! And the dog needs to be controlled/learn how to act around food, this is a major tipping point for animals & humans.

beachholiday · 27/12/2010 11:19

Viva,

You said in your OP:

" Dd is nine and terrorises the dog for no reason. "

VivaLeBeaver · 27/12/2010 11:20

She is hitting the dog and runs up to it screaming at the dog to lie down. I'm not saying that isn't happening. But it happens occassionally, but that's still too much.

I don't think I've spent ALL Xmas on MN at all. Maybe an hour yesterday and less the day before. At times when DD has been happily playing on her Wii or playing with her dad. I don't have to spend all day with her you know, she gets plenty of attention. Why aren't you spending time with your kids Animation?

I don't need any help rehoming her thanks Val as I'm not going down that route yet. If I can't get things sorted with the dog trainer then yes I'll have to consider that and will do it through the RGT. I keep in close contact with the RGT branch she came from and they are aware of the situation. They know us quite well as we're often back there for dog walks, fundraising, etc. I spoke to them this morning and they don't think the situation warrents rehoming.

OP posts:
beachholiday · 27/12/2010 11:22

".. I'm suprised to be honest so many people are saying to rehome her so quickly when normally people here are slated for being so quick to rehome their dogs."

People are saying to rehome her because your daughter hits her.

VivaLeBeaver · 27/12/2010 11:24

I should probably have said no GOOD reason. I still don't think it is a reason/excuse. Though to be honest I don't think it was till I had a good, hard think about things over the last couple of days that I've connected it all to the initial incident when the dog snapped. Nor did I put myself in DD's place of still being scared of the dog when it charges about. I'm not blaming the dog, its normal dog behaviour and something that I need to get sorted out if its causing a problem.

I did come on here wanting support, have been honest. Have taken the opportunity to think about the situation a bit more deeply and what I can do to sort it. But am now getting accused of lying and spending too much time MNing. Well guess I better go and play some Wii with DD then. Hope you all have a lovely NewYear.

OP posts: