to prefer changing nappies rather than battle potty training?

[Cadpat]

MIL thinks I am being a lazycow laid back parent.

Backstory, DD turns 3 next month, and we've had two aborted attempts at potty training. She knows the theory, will ocasionally go on the potty, tells me as soon as she's done a poo so I can change her. But she's not bothered about being trained otherwise, and I honestly think she cannot get the hang of going on the potty or telling us before she goes, as opposed to after.

But, to be honest, I cannot be bothered to go through the stress of potty training, staying indoors, cleaning up messes, stressing both of us out, yada yada. Changing nappies is so much easier.

DH is getting antsy too now (he probably wouldn't if he had to clean up after her) Anyway, I have decided to leave it for however long it takes, I don't care about changing nappies, much prefer it to the stress of training andhopingnurserywilldoiteventually. AIBU?

Rilly - you could be describing my DS. I am so glad I read this thread as I am getting pressurised from DH, MIL and my mum to putty train him (he is 3 end of next month).
I don't think he is ready.

• He doesn't always tell us when he has done a poo.
• He will deny doing a poo even when we know he has done one.
• He doesn't tell us when he has done a wee.
• He doesn't want to sit on the potty or the toilet, he has done it a couple of time (including once in preschool).
• He only kicks up a fuss at nappy change time when he is tired or engrossed in play, most of the time he is okay.
• He does have naked bottom time but will often ask to have his nappy put back on.
• He is not very good at pulling his trousers down.
• He doesn't like the idea of nappy pants.

We tried yesterday, we took his nappy off and he did sit on the potty for a little while but not for long. He resisted putting his nappy pants on, and weed several times in there, without saying anything. He didn't have any accidents during several hours of nappy off time but as soon as I put a nappy on him he did a big wee.

DH is convinced he is continent and just resisting coming out of nappies. I am not sure.

The timing for potty training IS about more than just whether the child is showing signs of readiness and interest. It has to be the right time for everyone else too: 38 weeks pregnant/ just about to go on holiday/ just about to have a houseful of visitors for Christmas, etc, would all be useless times to try and you'd be entirely justified to stick your fingers in your ears and hum in avoidance.

But be aware that there does seem to be a window for these things. My kids both decided to come out of nappies around their second birthday, in Feb, whereas I'd earmarked 2.5 at the height of summer. Oh well - as it turned out, thick joggers hastily purchased from all the local charity shops kept the worst of it contained anyway.

A friend's boy showed the same signs at the same time, but she (quite naturally) ignored it as she had a newborn. He then went completely off the idea and it was an uphill struggle to get him dry for pre-school months and months later.

Consistency is the key - pick a time when they're receptive and you haven't much else going on, be prepared to stay in the house for a couple of days, get in some Smarties or stickers, then put a mat of some sort (disposable change mats are good) on the buggy and the car seat. Once you've gone for it, absolutely don't swing back and forth depending on if you're shopping or not. The poor child can't possibly be expected to remember whether they put a nappy on that morning. 'If you're awake, you're in pants' is the only message to give.

Good luck! It's usually not as bad in hindsight as you imagine.

Of course the cost of nappies has a lot to do with it - not many of us can afford to waste money on something that is not necessary. Nappy companies make a huge amount of money the longer children are kept in nappies - the UK market is fantastic for them because it has such late ages of potty training.

There are a lot of myths when it comes to potty training - parents are worried about damaging their child, causing them too much stress, when really it is just another stage of development and not something to stress out about. There seems to be a belief that the longer you wait the easier it will be and the child will magically want to wear a pair of panties one day without you having to do any effort at all - and I don't think that is true in all cases. It is not necessarily easier the longer you wait, possibly because there is more of an emotional component when potty training an older child that exists less in a smaller child. In a smaller child is it purely a physical act.

I disagree with the long list of criteria that needs to be fulfilled before a child is ready for potty training, it's just as well I didn't read that otherwise my children would have been in nappies twice as long as they were.

So what are your suggestions for encouraging a child to potty train who a) doesn't care if they have wet/soiled themselves? b) has only said once in 1 year "change nappy" and that was because he had a sore bottom?

I am genuinely interested in how to do it because I am at a loss at even where to begin.

DS1 was nearly 3 when I stupidly bowed to pressure from PIL and CM to take his nappies away because he was "lazy" and "just needs firmness." At 3.6 I gave his nappies back because the poor kid was in a constant state of anxiety, wee and poo accidents at least 4 or 5 times a day, screaming hysterics at the very word toilet etc. He relaxed, behaviour improved. At 4.1 I tried again, we were down to one accident a day. Now at 5.4 he is mostly reliable with support to remember to go. But he has to be taken in school, and if they forget, he will have an accident on the way home.

OTOH, DS2 is 23 months and close to trained in the house, not ready for out and about yet because he has very little speech and won't use a potty (toilet only) but I think he'll be ready at two.

BTW, we use cloth and always have, didn't make a difference to my late trainer!
YANBU. Why are people so interested anyway?

I am trying to work out the right to train my dd (2.10) She seems really resistant to using a potty so I haven't pushed it, as I thought it might put her off. Now I have read these I feel more under pressure to try again. Do people really think it is lazy leave potty training late?

I got quite a few faces because of DD being so late - but who cares?! They changes their tune when they found out how easy it was (she was at nursery in knickers the day after training, was out and about etc)

I do agree there is a window though - I'm really not sure if we will deliberately leave it late with DS especially as boys tend to be harder to train.

wheredoesallthesnotcomefrom - I know this is a cheeky ask and I shoudl probably just buy the book (I expect it sells in Australia as well) but please could you drop a little hint about some more of the things on the list to show they're ready?
DS has only just started going up steps one foot each step and still can't pull his own trousers up and down or dress or undress himself regularly - so I'm interested to know what other things to look out for, if you don't mind.

I thought there was some brain development that has to have happened before a child can work out when they need the loo. Surely this doesn't just click instantly when they turn 2.5?

Rilliyrilly - All three of my children were potty trained in different ways so any advice I give may not be relevant to your child; it's just to give you an idea.

DD1 was not quite two years when she potty trained in a day - very easy, and I suspect seeing other children using the potty in her creche had a big influence on her.

Dd2 was just 19 months when she used the potty - we went on holiday the very next day; I didn't know you weren't supposed to potty train on holiday so did so anyway and she was dry in a couple of weeks. I did use pull ups for her- again lots of people tell you pull ups leads to them being confused and that might be true but I found them great.

Ds was probably the hardest - I wanted to potty train in the summer and let him run around bare bottomed for a couple for days, literally following him with a potty. That does take effort, especially when like me you have two other children and a host of other responsibilities. After two days we were getting wees in the potty, and it took a bit longer for poos. Certainly worth the effort.

I have a friend with 3 DC - boy, girl, boy. Her eldest - she forced the issue when he was just past 2 and it took months of wetness and accidents and mess. Her DD almost self-trained at about 20mo in a week. With her DS2, she waited until he showed signs of being ready rather than picking some random time when other people thought he ought to be ready and it went much easier than with DS1. DS2 was a lot older, around 3, when she started with him.

My DH was getting very stressed that our DD1 wasn't trained when she had her third birthday. I had tried twice, going all in and completely giving up nappies, and both times it was a disaster as she just wasn't ready. A few months later, she asked to wear pants, and she was training within a day or two. We had a couple of accidents after that, but very rarely. To be honest, I found it really easy when she was ready.

It's only a massive chore if you are trying to potty train a child when they have no understanding of what it feels like to have a full bladder. So YABU to think that it's going to be a nightmare! But YANBU to wait until she is ready.

I agree with Belgo in that I think a list of criteria should not guide your decision on whether to potty train. My DS was showing no signs, hadn't mentioned the Potty once, didn't want his nappy off but at 2.9 months I thought I should get on with it. I devoted 3 days of staying in and it took a week of focus to get him dry. The following week he refused to wear a nappy at night and has been dry at night ever since. I appreciate I may have been lucky but I think its important that you're consistent. Maybe your DD has an inconsistent approach towards it because you do. Everything is pretty black and white at this age and I think if you showing reluctance she will pick up on that.

I wasn't going to stay in, clear up the mess etc. I thought i'd wait for him to say 'i'm ready!' But I would have been in for a very long wait if I didn't lead the way. I just used a sticker chart. On the second day he was asking for the nappy back on but I resisted and it was soon forgotten.

To be fair I didn't have any pressure from family members which I would imagine makes it more of a trial!

I am very interested in the theory that "later is easier" when it comes to major developmental stages. My DD wasn't fully toilet trained until she was 3.3, though she managed to go a whole morning every day at pre-school without nappies or accidents from 2.10. I didn't stress at all about toilet training (potty training was a complete no-no in my book - I think potties are gross and wildly inconvenient so wanted to go straight from nappies to loo) and one day she told me she wanted to poo on the loo. About an hour later she told me she wanted to wee on the loo. And that was it. Basically she knew exactly what she had to do and it was just up to her to decide when she wanted to do it. She has only ever had one accident since.

I am now going through the whole same experience with writing. DD is at a French school where there is no pressure on DCs to read and write until they enter primary school in the September of the calendar year of their sixth birthday. When DD started school in September this year (aged 5.10) she could barely write (though she could read quite a bit and could print). Two months later she writes beautiful cursive - she did a great letter to FC last week and a lovely long shopping list this weekend. I cannot for a moment imagine she would have learned so fast and so well if she had been younger when she was taught.

YANBU to want to do it that way - totally up to you

YABVU if you think it is fair to expect a nursery to do it for you! this is a parents job.

i tried with my almost-2 recently, because everyone kept talking about windows of opportunity etc. I knew the theory and so did she, we'd read books, it was warm enough for her to run around naked, I am not fussed about accidents (cheap, scratched wooden floors), etc.

what happened was, for the first two/three days she would announce an accident - whoopsie! messy. wet. And then she got so used to the fact that I was blase and she had no nappy on, that she just started merrily weeing/pooing when the impulse took her.

So we've backed off, but there was no lack of motivation or patience on my part. She really, simply, isn't ready.

I've been lucky in that all of mine are summer babies which makes it easier to run knickerless around the house and garden but there is no way we'd wait beyond the summer in which they turn three.
I wonder if we had to wash the nappies by hand and dry them by the fire if we'd be a bit quicker off the mark to get these toddlers out of nappies.
I feel really sorry for the mums and nursery workers having to lift huge child size legs and bums up to wipe them.

Thanks for writing down your experience of potty training Belgo.

A couple of questions: Did your DDs sit on the potty of their own accord or did you put them on there?

When you followed your DS round with a potty, did you wait for him to wee and stick the potty underneath or did you ask if he wanted a wee?

I will feel very stressed if I have to follow DS round all day, as DH and I were both there when we tried to put him in pants once. I persuaded DS onto the potty, he sat their for ages, then weed in his pants when he got off.

DH expected me to sit and watch his every move to make sure he didn't wee on the floor. I can't be doing this when I have to cook, clean, take them to preschool etc.

And another question: what did you do about taking them out and about?

Bonsoir - the age in which your dd was potty trained was strongly influenced by your disdain of potties. The age that my children were potty trained was strongly influenced by the fact that none of them would lie nicely having their nappies changed - preferring to crawl off and put their hands in their nappy etc - very unhygienic. With dd2 I had no choice but to use a potty - she was just 8kg and way too small for the toilet. Too small for most potties and underpants as well. But I did not consider that a reason to keep her in nappies.

Rilly -I never forced them to sit on a potty, or made them stay sat on a potty. I did literally follow ds around with a potty. I forgot to say, for about six months previous, I had encouraged him to wee in a specially designated pot, standing up, after his bath (because you may find that many children wee as they come out of the bath). Maybe not the most conventional of methods, but worked for us.

And of course loads of encouragement when he did successfully use the potty - my girls were virtually cheerleaders for him!

in fact my criteria list - is

*pays attention to you

*understands simple commands

the level of understanding required is after all 'if i wee on the potty, i will get a treat..'

i see no evidence to support the theory that it is easier if you wait. some people train early, easily. some people find it hard to train later...and vice versa.

Rilly - I sometimes used pull ups out and about and put them on any available toilet (fortunately public toilets are clean here). Again, pull ups are not recommended by many people but I think they are great.

I'm with kodokan and Bonsoir on the waiting for the right window.

Tried at 2.3 with DS - hopeless, although he was very keen. Then as 3rd birthday approached he seemed more ready. I gave him plenty of notice: "when we get back from holiday, you can stop wearing nappies and have big boy pants and use the potty instead". It was a breeze. He was physically able and wanted to do it. Straight into pants and barely an accident.

After a couple of weeks when the novelty had worn off there were more accidents, especially when he played outside and was very absorbed in what he was doing. But that wasn't a problem for him, me, or nursery and gradually stopped.

(Do see your point about nappies being easier, though. Have often been surprised by friends wanting to hurry toddlers out of nappies "for convenience". Accidents, long car journeys, plane flights, lack of public toilets - not convenient.)

OP, I actually had one who could SPELL toilet before he could use one, so you're not alone.

Admittedly DS1 was a freakily early writer -- memorized words by 'drawing' the letter shapes, could name planets, car makes, traffic symbols... I think potty training was both alien and boring to him. He suddenly trained completely and for ever at just over three when I was despairing of ever managing it.

DS2 semi-trained in lackadaisical fashion around 2.5, then carried on having accidents until he was at least 6.

DD, on the other hand, declared war on nappies at 15 months, when barely walking (but god could she talk by then), and would rip them off with loud protests of 'SHOGGY nappy! Ugh! SHOGGY!'

They vary.