not to have sex with DH?

[lotswife]

My libido's been a bit crap since DC3 was born. I used to be up for it loads, but it got harder and harder to get turned on/in the mood - needed more effort on DH's part which he just didn't put in.

We had some talks about it as he was feeling rejected and unloved and I was feeling hassled and like he was only interested in sex.

He said he'd try to make more of an effort to make me feel desired (rather than like a blow up doll - his idea of foreplay was just to grab my tits or my bits and then expect me to be ready and waiting).

Then there were two incidents which really shook me. About 6 months ago I was asleep in DC2's bed (she'd been crying and I'd gone to soothe her and fallen asleep). DC2 had woken up and climbed over me to go and play with the other DCs. DH came to find me - and I woke up with him pulling up my nightie and parting my buttocks. I said 'what are you doing?' - but quietly as I thought DC1 was asleep in the other bed (v disoriented). He said "you're very wet, so I thought I'd take advantage" and put his cock in me! I shoved him away and we had a huge row.

I thought it was totally inappropriate (even though the DCs weren't in the room), and he kept saying that I was wet so he thought I wanted it (wanted what?! I was asleep). I felt really dirty and disgusting and like DH didn't respect me at all as a person.

We barely had sex after that. I just had no desire towards him at all. Then last week he was hassling me again - I was just about to drop off to sleep and he was a bit tipsy after a work night out - and I said I wasn't in the mood and he said I was never in the mood and it wasn't a marriage without sex.

I said that it was hard to fancy someone who'd just stick their cock in their sleeping wife. He said I was making excuses.

We've barely talked since. AIBU?

YANBU
:(
He tried to rape you. Tragic for you that he doesn't understand that. Uuuggh. So many sexually disfunctional, entitled men out there.

I said to him that what he did could be called sexual assault.

He 100% believes that as I was (apparently), wet he was perfectly reasonable in thinking I was up for it. He accepts I wasn't, but still thinks it was a fair mistake.

he doesn't believe it can be the reason for my not wanting to shag him anymore.

He thinks I am being totally unreasonable and I should be up for having sex. But whenever he touches me I feel really frozen up and angry - really angry, like 'how dare you' - and obviously that's not nice for anyone.

I suggested counselling and he said it was my problem and I could go if I wanted!

No, YANBU.

But is their any chance that this is a gap in communication between you? I mean, do you think he was just 'talking dirty' and trying to be sexy (but misjudging the situation)?

If this happened between me and DH it wouldn't be him trying to rape me - that would be waaay too strong a description. It'd be DH trying it on. (And sometimes I go with it and sometimes I don't).

Lotswife, is there any chance that you are looking for a reason not to have sex with him, other than this? Are you knackered or stressed or overwrought with having the DCs all over you?

I'm not trying to belittle your feelings about your DH just wondering. It seems like a massive gulf to have opened up over this incident, if you were a cosy intimate couple before this.

(Please don't take offence! Just trying to help you explore this.)

Lemon I think the real issue is probably my unresolved anger. If DH had apologised - or apologised now - and accepted that his attitude stinks and what he did was horrible and I am entitled to feel angry about it, I could move on.

But he's still pawing at me and getting pissed off when I am not interested, and when I try to explain he gets all defensive/offensive and we get nowhere.

It's not like he was even making an effort to make me feel sexy/sexual before this (when I asked him to as it was the only way for me to get turned on), so I just feel like he can't be bothered to make things better.

So why should I shag someone who is that inconsiderate?

it's more about that than what he did really, I can see how he could've thought it was okay and I think calling it rape would be a bit strong and a bit of a red herring really.

How would he have known you were wet eithout touching you?

At the begining I was thinking you were BU as sex should be a healthy part of marriage and sometimes pushing yourself a bit can be good for the libido. But I feel like your DH went too far.. Tough one. Hope you guys can sort it out.

Lemon, I wanted to feel like he cared at all about my enjoyment/involvement in sex. and when my libido took a knock, it became clear that he wasn't prepared to make any extra effort to engage me. So that's where this all started I think.

Having sex with a person without prior consent is rape. Sorry if the word upsets you but it is. I don't mean to state that your P is a rapist, but that he has as little consideration for your rights over your body as a rapist would. You have the right to choose when you have sex, and be a willing participant. A man touching and attempting to penetrate the body of his unaware and sleeping wife is disgusting. If DH ever tried anything similar he'd be in the fucking doghouse I can tell you.

There is obviously an issue for both of you. While he continues to make it all your problem, and refuses to acknowledge that he is complicit in the sexual disfunction going on, it will never get better. Twat.

Waaay too strong a description!!! Really?? I don't think so.

What type of man tries to have sex with his wife when she's asleep? How would he know you were 'wet' without touching you? Does his gaze penetrate through your night clothes and skin.

What he did was out of order and unless he realises that you have a problem.

I'd suggest you tell him that if he wants to have any chance of a sex life then he will agree to attend counselling with you.

Well yeah, exactly. See, to me, if I'd done something comprable - I dunno, shoved a dildo up DH's arse or whatever while he was sleeping - and he was clearly angry and upset, I would be horrified that I had upset him. EVEN IF I believed (for whatever crazy reason), that what I had done was okay in itself.

But he is just all sulky and claiming I am "making excuses", which makes me rage because don't I deserve a nice sex life with someone who desires me and respects me and cares about my enjoyment, too?

It's not that I don't want to have sex or have no sexual feelings - I am just so angry at DH for being such a cock.

You've got to find a way to have sex with him, though, since it's a pretty major part of marriage. It's just going to get worse and worse if you don't. Either you are going to need to make him grovel and extract every kind of apology or you're going to have to be the one to move.

I think that he's unlikely to give you an apology right now because he'll be feeling vulnerable too and just won't be able to bring himself to say it. Annoying, as he's in the wrong. Do you think there's anything you could do to bridge the gap?

OK, if everything between you was fine then the incident wouldn't be such a big deal. My DP will often start touching me/making love while I'm asleep. I don't mind at all. But you were already having issues before this happened, so he should have known not to expect that you would be up for it at any time.

The counselling thing... even if he would go (which I don't think he would), he wouldn't engage or work on it. So there doesn't seem much point. A thousand people telling him he's a disrespectful wanker wouldn't make him think "hmmm maybe I am a disrespectful wanker".

When I said 'Youve' got to find a way to have sex with him' what I meant was ' You've got to find a way to enjoy sex with each other' (i.e. not nec. onus on you)

If he treated me with more respect (physically), I might be up for gap-bridging. But he's decided there's no point because, and I quote, "I decided not to touch you for two weeks and you didn't even notice, so it doesn't matter what I do".

Those two weeks were when all three DCs had chickenpox. I was so tired I could barely see. Nice of him to decide that was a good time to experiment with not groping me all the time.

This whole situation depresses me massively because I was always happy to have sex with him before - it's just since DC3 really. But it's more that I realised that he doesn't really care how I feel/if I am turned on (when it got harder to turn me on and he wasn't interested in making the effort).

I was about to jump on you there Lemon but you explained just in time

OP's relationship was not cosy before this BTW. She explained that he has been dismissive and a pretty crap shag for a long time. He is a man who thinks he has rights over her body and that his behaviour has no impact on whether she wants to shag him or not. Selfish, lazy and entitled. Good luck changing that OP...

If he's been like this forever (which I think may be the case), and it was just 'disguised' by my formerly high sex drive/ease of getting aroused... what then?

I cannot live like this forever, really, it's soul-destroying and will wreck our marriage. Sex IS an important part of marriage. But so is feeling loved and considered and respected.

DH would say "I can't believe you are saying you'd end our marriage over that one tiny incident", he wouldn't accept it's the bigger picture which is the issue.

D.I.V.O.R.C.E
&
Take his balls with you.
I am really he did that to you.
And very he hasn't apologised over, and over, and over and over again for such a disgusting act.

An ultimatum - and mean it. Accept that the issues need to be addressed properly, come to counselling, and commit to working on his part of it, or leave. No choice really.

I think I have gone crazy reading this thread especially PamelaFlitton's post 'OK, if everything between you was fine then the incident wouldn't be such a big deal. My DP will often start touching me/making love while I'm asleep.'

If you are asleep nobody is 'making love' to you. They are raping you. OP, what your husband did to you was wrong and if my DP did this to me (which he wouldn't, as he isn't a rapist)...I would never, ever have sex with him again. I wouldn't be thinking up ways of
enjoying sex with him Lemon

OP I really feel for you. He sexually assaulted you and he is brushing it off like it doesn't matter. Just because he is your husband and you signed a bit of paper does not mean he has any right to try and put his cock in you without your consent. Sex isn't some kind of entitlement! Even if he hadn't have done this horrendous thing you would still be entitled to say 'no' if you didn't want to have sex. You have the rights over your own body.

I think theres a serious problem here .Im not surprised your so upset about the sleeping incidant , i would be too , your not a " thing " for his pleasure .

The groping in itself is an issue , he wouldnt do this to a woman at work , and he shouldnt do it to you. The fact you are married does not give him unlimited access to your body , and i dont like the fact that hes trying to manipulate you into having sex you dont want .

He seems to have a massive sense of entitlement and id imagine this spreads to other aspects of your marriage too . Had he done something similar to anyone else he,d have been arrested , had he grabbed someones elses breasts , again , he wouldve been arrested . Men who feel they can do these things to their wives usually have other unpleasant charecter traits .

Next time he claims your making excuses , id state firmly that you dont want to have sex with him , and that you have no need for excuses , you just dont want to, end of. You dont have to justify or excuse , or explain yourself to him.

This shouldnt have happened to you. If you were saying a stranger had done it there would be uproar , the fact you are married does not give him special rights.

Lotswife we went through similar. Not whilst I was sleeping thank goodness but if I said I wasn't in the mood DH would keep trying to persuade me until I gave in just to get some sleep. This really p**d me off as I could not see the point in saying 'I love you' when he clearly didn't love me enough to let me get the sleep I desperately craved (back then travelling lots, 5am wake up to get to airport, DCs waking in the night and him still asking for sex at 11pm).

We ended up in counselling as I stopped wanting sex at all. Counsellor helped him see what he was doing. It hadn't occurred to him and he stopped immediately. There are still times when I don't want any sex and he now understands this. When we are both in the mood it's fantastic better than when we first met. When I'm not in the mood - we still love each other and we're still very tactile, he just now respects that I don't want sex. Horrible situation to work through though.

BTW I first went to counselling on my own. It does help. You could also go see your doctor. My doctor referred us to the sexual therapy side of Relate. DH wasn't expecting what he was told there (he through it was all down to my 'dysfunction') but eventually it worked. I hated the feeling of 'are you better now?' or 'You're looking much more relaxed' (subtext, does that mean we can have sex yet?) as we were going through the process. I even spoke to Samaritans online as I was feeling so desperate. But it worked and he's now mortified by his previous lack of understanding.

Theres a chapter about this in the book " Living with the dominater " , its abusive behaviour , and makes for grim reading.

Do not let this continue op . Your being sexually harassed , and youve been sexually assaulted in your own home , where you should feel safe.

"I think that he's unlikely to give you an apology right now because he'll be feeling vulnerable too and just won't be able to bring himself to say it."

Diddums. Maybe he should grow up then? Why should she make the effort because he wants to act like a child??

I cannot believe he hasn't already apologised profusely. My DH would be devastated to know that he'd done something that upset me so much, not that he'd ever try to rape me anyway.

I really think you need to evaluate your relationship and he needs to start accepting what he did and bloody apologise at the very least!