not to have sex with DH?

[lotswife]

My libido's been a bit crap since DC3 was born. I used to be up for it loads, but it got harder and harder to get turned on/in the mood - needed more effort on DH's part which he just didn't put in.

We had some talks about it as he was feeling rejected and unloved and I was feeling hassled and like he was only interested in sex.

He said he'd try to make more of an effort to make me feel desired (rather than like a blow up doll - his idea of foreplay was just to grab my tits or my bits and then expect me to be ready and waiting).

Then there were two incidents which really shook me. About 6 months ago I was asleep in DC2's bed (she'd been crying and I'd gone to soothe her and fallen asleep). DC2 had woken up and climbed over me to go and play with the other DCs. DH came to find me - and I woke up with him pulling up my nightie and parting my buttocks. I said 'what are you doing?' - but quietly as I thought DC1 was asleep in the other bed (v disoriented). He said "you're very wet, so I thought I'd take advantage" and put his cock in me! I shoved him away and we had a huge row.

I thought it was totally inappropriate (even though the DCs weren't in the room), and he kept saying that I was wet so he thought I wanted it (wanted what?! I was asleep). I felt really dirty and disgusting and like DH didn't respect me at all as a person.

We barely had sex after that. I just had no desire towards him at all. Then last week he was hassling me again - I was just about to drop off to sleep and he was a bit tipsy after a work night out - and I said I wasn't in the mood and he said I was never in the mood and it wasn't a marriage without sex.

I said that it was hard to fancy someone who'd just stick their cock in their sleeping wife. He said I was making excuses.

We've barely talked since. AIBU?

OnceUpon if he'd been touching me gently - you know what I mean - and I'd woken up to that, then that would've been different. But he was clearly just trying to shove it in there. No interest in my arousal (because I was 'wet' so it was go straight to shag) - so the fuck what if I was wet?!

Does a man having an erection always mean he wants to have sex? That is a genuine question as perhaps I could use that to argue that even if I was dripping wet it doesn't mean I wanted a cock up me with no preamble.

In the past we have had sex which has started from one of us making moves on the other while dozing or half asleep BUT it has always been consensual. But perhaps DH doesn't see that as being different?

whatdoiknowanyway thankyou for your post. Counselling has to be the answer. I am very glad your DH saw the light.

I am worried that there are some really deep issues here in our relationship which have been 'glossed over' by our previously compatible sex drives. I love DH very very much, but it feels like he doesn't respect me at all.

I am scared I think that if I try to force counselling and he says no (or goes but doesn't engage), then that'll be my answer and I'll have to end the marriage.

Which I really don't want to do. But... I can't be married to someone who doesn't care about me.

Lotswife- I love how angry you sound. Because you should be angry, he has done a terrible thing and he shouldn't be trying to make you feel bad for it. He is totally and utterly in the wrong.

And getting wet isn't like having an erection is it? When a man gets an erection, and then he stops having an erection, his cock isn't hard anymore. Obviously. But if a woman is wet, and then she stops being turned on...the wetness doesn't just disappear does it? So regardless if it was the bloody niagara falls down there, you were asleep and therefore you were not inviting him to stick his dick in you!!!

Women can get orgasms whilst being raped, does your DH think that makes it ok, and that the rape victim actually enjoyed it?

seriously, someone needs to have a fucking word with him.
have you got a mutual friend that could explain it to him?

If he's not going to apologise etc, i would be telling him your thinking about making a statement to the police.
and no, im not joking.

Anyway wetness doesn't equal arousal. I get wet when I am ovulating or when I am premenstrual.

What he has done is very wrong - he should be trying to understand why and apologising.

Women don't get wet just because of arousel either, hormones play a massive part, and i get wet when ovulating, been walking a lot, and just after my period.

I don't think I could bring myself to sleep with a man that a) did that in the first place (that is attempted rape) and b) showed no remorse and carried on insisting that what he did was ok.

OnceUpon I am clearly fucking furious, which is amazing as I've not been feeling that angry consciously. I guess I've had so much nastiness from DH I've been swallowing my own fury.

I think I might need to kick some H arse later.

OTT he subscribes to the 'dark alley' school of thinking re: rape I think. I did try to have a conversation along those lines when it happened and his argument was basically "you are being completely irrational, I am not a rapist, if you are going to call what I did rape then this marriage is over".

God he is such a cock. But he is a really lovely partner and a great father! How many times have I heard that?! But it's true! How can they both be true?

This is such a difficult situation - and if you're both not careful you might end up not being married much longer. What your DH did was brutally insensitive - not just from the 'cock in sleeping wife' point of you but the fact that it was in one of your children's bed. I would have been livid and felt that a line had been crossed. Having said that, when I was pregnant my (now ex-) DH really went off me sexually and I can't really describe just how terrible that loss of intimacy made me feel - ugly, unloved, somehow asexual. So I can understand that your DH probably feels terribly rejected and thinks he can somehow seduce you back to how things were. If you want your marriage to survive someone's going to have to swallow their pride and I've got a nasty feeling you're going to have to be the one to do it. Perhaps if you could say that you understand that he probably feels rejected by the change in your libido it might make him feel less demonized and give him the space to admit that what he did was wrong and insensitive. Or maybe, as in my case, the loss of intimacy is just a manifestation of a deeper problem between the two of you. For your sake I hope that's not the case, splitting up when you have kids isn't much fun.

BornAgain that is pretty much where I am. I can't imagine feeling like I want to shag him.

It's not going to fix itself, clearly - I just have to pray he will try to fix it with me (but I don't think he will).

Aside from the sex issue what is your relationship like?

Yanbuyanbuyanbu!!!!!!!

Freudian, in many ways it's a brilliant relationship and I am the more demanding partner (I am the more emotional one, in the past DH has had to hold my hand through some difficult personal circumstances). We are really good friends and get on really well.

In the past this was complimented by a mutually enjoyable sex life, but since DC3 was born and sex became an issue I have noticed some other things which have bothered me more and more - probably because I am already low-level angry and resentful of DH.

The thing is, not having sex will make you less bonded to your dh and more irritable with hi. In general. exacerbated by dc exhaustion, you can see how it can spiral.

FWIW, I think people shouting 'rape' are waaay over the top, at least with regards to interpreting his intentions. He sounds clumsy and confused and sulky to me.

I guess it's daft to ask if anyone can take the kids while you go away for a weekend? Not a 'dirty' weekend; just to change the rhythm a bit.

Nobody is 'shouting rape', we are pointing out that what he attempted to do was, according to the law, rape. Trying to give some perspective to the OP (who TBF sounds like she has a good perspective already) and to her H who thinks he has the right to fuck her unconscious body without asking her first.

I think shouting rape and divorce is hugely unhelpful. Please try to work thing out

Your dh was insensitive. Like sylvanian he soundes clumsy and confused and rejected to me. Men are not good at understanding why their exhausted wives are no longer as up for it as they used to be.

Try to find some counselling.

how old is dc3? and are you breastfeeding?

low libido is really common with a new baby and/or breastfeeding. In time it may (should) come back :)

whether or not you want to have sex with him when it does is an entirely different matter! yanbu to not have sex with him until he starts treating you with more respect

How do you propose OP forces her H to accept and agree to counselling? She can't carry on as is, she's scared of pushing him into ending the marriage or of him pushing her into ending the marriage, but she knows she can't carry on this way. he refuses counselling....what can she do? In this case (I've been there, over a different issue) the only choice she has is to give him an ultimatum, and mean it. It's scary when you don't really want to split up, but if you know you can't carry on as you are, what choice do you have?

FWIW OP, DH and I spent two months apart recently because I couldn't put up with different, but equally selfish and damaging behaviour. Of course I don't want to get divorced but equally I don't want to live my whole life putting up with this behaviour. It has (so far, pretty much) has the desired effect, because I was prepared to follow through and DH doesn't want to divorce either.

Unfortunately (or not so unfortnately really, as the end result will be better for you) I think your marriage is broken beyond repair.
Because your H basically hates women. He doesn't regard you as a proper human being, with rights and feelings - you are His Wife therefore you exist for his benefit, not your own. Some men are like this - they can be perfectly charming, and indeed moderately good in bed, but slowly and steadily the relationship becomes about the man's needs being met, all the time. Relationships with men like this show up the fault lines once children arrive, as the selfish, sexist man resents the fact that his wife has priorities other than his comfort and his prick. Instead of working with her to get through the TBH exhausting early years of parenthood, he starts asking for sex. If the woman explains that she is tired and could do with more help round the house he may appear to listen, but continues asking for sex. If sex happens at all it becomes, in the woman's mind, a matter of 'despunking' the man to get some peace, so less and less enjoyable for her; naturally she wants it less and less, the man keeps on pestering and all too often with nasty, selfish, woman-hating, entitled men like this one sounds, you get an assault or an attempted rape or an actual rape which the man DOES NOT APOLOGISE FOR.

It is not AT ALL surprising that you don't want to have sex with him lotswife. You feel, not surprisingly, unsafe with him because he is not demonstrating any care, affection or respect for you. It's unlikely that he will, because he doesn't consider you a person, you're a 'woman', that's all.

One thing a counsellor said to me:
Women need an emotional connection to have sex
Men want sex so as to create an emotional connection.

Small kids and low libido can really create a clash of needs/wants/perceptions exascerbating an already very different set of priorities.

What he did was totally unacceptable and actually reminds me of a time I woke up to find an ex having sex with me.

Before he did this to you iirc you were already not that keen on sex with him, for whatever reason, so he can't say what he did is the reason for your low desire but TBH no one would judge you if it was.

Do you want to stay with him and find a way though this?

I feel so sorry for you.

Well whatdoiknow that's a bunch of crap, IMO and IME....

I have just seen the bit where he said the marriage was over if you said it was rape . He is bullying you.

YANBU.

DC3 is two, but very very demanding (being investigated for mild SN); doesn't sleep much. So we don't have much time just the two of us in the evenings iyswim.

I think my libido has come back, or is coming back - I do have sexual feelings now (have a renewed interest in masturbation, for eg), but NOT WITH DH. Because I am so angry with him. So I am worried that this is our opportunity to try to improve things, get them off on a better footing.

I could 'force myself' to shag him a few times; I've had that advice quite a lot (close your eyes and think of england, the more you do the more you want), and if DH hadn't shown such a lack of respect for me then I'd be more open to that.

But I don't want to cover this back up. I want to address it, face it, improve it.

whatdoiknow I think you're right; I can imagine that he's trying to 'make' things be like they were in a simplistic way; we used to be happier, we used to have sex, so if we have sex we will be happier.

I can see that, but it would feel like a betrayal of myself because it would be like telling DH that his attitude is okay, and it's really not.

And if this comes up again in the future, what then?

But I am really scared about forcing the issue, I don't want to break up - I want to fix things, and I don't want my hand forced because in the end I can't believe it could come to this, either.

And when Dh says I am being irrational and making a big deal out of nothing and being unfair I do see what he means.

But it is so hard because I think if he doesn't respect me now, when will he?

Confused? What bollocks.