not to have sex with DH?

[lotswife]

My libido's been a bit crap since DC3 was born. I used to be up for it loads, but it got harder and harder to get turned on/in the mood - needed more effort on DH's part which he just didn't put in.

We had some talks about it as he was feeling rejected and unloved and I was feeling hassled and like he was only interested in sex.

He said he'd try to make more of an effort to make me feel desired (rather than like a blow up doll - his idea of foreplay was just to grab my tits or my bits and then expect me to be ready and waiting).

Then there were two incidents which really shook me. About 6 months ago I was asleep in DC2's bed (she'd been crying and I'd gone to soothe her and fallen asleep). DC2 had woken up and climbed over me to go and play with the other DCs. DH came to find me - and I woke up with him pulling up my nightie and parting my buttocks. I said 'what are you doing?' - but quietly as I thought DC1 was asleep in the other bed (v disoriented). He said "you're very wet, so I thought I'd take advantage" and put his cock in me! I shoved him away and we had a huge row.

I thought it was totally inappropriate (even though the DCs weren't in the room), and he kept saying that I was wet so he thought I wanted it (wanted what?! I was asleep). I felt really dirty and disgusting and like DH didn't respect me at all as a person.

We barely had sex after that. I just had no desire towards him at all. Then last week he was hassling me again - I was just about to drop off to sleep and he was a bit tipsy after a work night out - and I said I wasn't in the mood and he said I was never in the mood and it wasn't a marriage without sex.

I said that it was hard to fancy someone who'd just stick their cock in their sleeping wife. He said I was making excuses.

We've barely talked since. AIBU?

Zondra - press report on your comment if you want somebody to delete it.

Thank you.earwicga.

Feel likeafool. Totally,Hijacked.

Very sorry to all reading.

My post was not intended to offend and did in fact state that if it missed the tenor of Lotswife's thoughts then I apologised and could be easily disregarded. There is plenty of advice on this thread if she subscribes to your viewpoint Dittany (and others) and therefore follows the logical outcome of that and leaves him. Mine was a another view that maybe Lotswife hadn't considered and she is of course free to accept/reject it depending on her circs. But it's worth hearing all ideas I think...

I see the bullying of posters with differing views from the hardcore continues unabated on this thread.

It seems some posters wont be happy till the OPs marriage is destroyed and shes left a bitter twisted husk of a person.

OP says she doesnt regard it as rape. Shes the only one here who is really in a position to decide. So you know what, respect her judgement, IT WASNT RAPE.

My main concern is that all these thoughts and opinions are being thrown at op (if she is still reading)

Without anyone actually being there with her to pick up the pieces..i would imagine after this thread there could be a million and one thoughts and emotions going through her, some of which may not have originally crossed her mind, which she is now just going to be left to deal with alone.

I know some would say..it needs to be said/heard and this is probably somewhat true at the right time/place when she has the personal support there with her to back it up.

This seems so wrong and unfair on her..i know people are trying to help..but i feel like her possibly fragile state(apologise if im jumping to conclusions) as been totally messed with through this thread.

And i know there is outside help around that she would be able to turn to. But i think anyone who has experienced hardships in their lives know that it isnt always a straight forward as - pick up the phone to get help..go to a crisis centre etc!

You have to be ready to take this step and if that is not the case surely it doesnt help to be thrown at then just left alone to deal

TBH i dont know the answer, but i do know that this thread has been playing on my mind and churning my stomach. I just really hope OP is ok right now, as none of us know that while we all just carry on arguing our points.

Op if you are reading i really help you are coping ok and getting what you need whatever that meay be x

'i really hope'

"OP says she doesnt regard it as rape...... So you know what.... IT WASNT RAPE."

So, is that how it works then? Rape is a matter of opinion?

That said, either way, her boundaries have been crossed by her DH and she's feeling invaded, disregarded, worthless and unheard. Is she BU not to have sex with him at the moment? Hell no. And like it or not, he's going to have to shift his attitude if he ever wants to be close to her again. Dismissing her feelings and telling her she's being irrational is not going to make it all go away.

"So, is that how it works then? Rape is a matter of opinion? "

Of course it fucking is!

"Of course it fucking is!"

Nice!

Sorry for snapping. But bloody hell Clam - if OP says she wasnt raped, then she wasnt raped.

"It seems some posters wont be happy till the OPs marriage is destroyed and shes left a bitter twisted husk of a person."

Yes, ccpccp, everyone on here who is disgusted by this man's behaviour is writing purely to ruin the OP's life. We don't really care that she was humilatingly violated as she slept, we just rabidly want her to destroy her family.

Every comment you make is full of your own agenda, more aggressively so than any other poster I've seen commenting on here. You've not engaged with the facts, you just keep screeching that it's not rape. Whatever issues you have personally that make you so desperately need to be blinkered about the facts of sexual assaults, I do not know, but I feel sorry for you.

As for asserting that rape is an opinion, well, that is sickening (not to mention patently absurd) and very stupid. The bastards who perpetrate sex crimes, however major or minor, might feel it is, but they are sickos who are clearly just pathetically obsessed with their own needs to the point of hurting others to pursue them.

Is child abuse, for example, a matter of opinion? How far does your weird need to diminish bad behaviour in men extend?! Or are you actually a man? I've wondered that, reading your comments. Not that that should make a difference because no normal, decent man would even conceptualise of doing such a thing.

And again, for the record, I feel that this was sexual assault - and yes, a crime.

PS Someone saying they haven't been raped or abused doesn't mean they haven't been raped or abused! If you genuinely can't see why that is ridiculous then you shouldn't be posting opinions about these matters!

"Someone saying they haven't been raped or abused doesn't mean they haven't been raped or abused!"

It sure as shit does if they are in possession of the real facts, have read the arguments, and believe they werent raped.

This isnt a win/lose debating competition Scorpette.

Ccp, many people, for whatever personal reasons, deny to themselves or genuinely believe that certain things done to them are not sexual assaults or abuse. Children who are abused often come to see it as normal - are they not abused then? Many women grow up in a household where sexual boundaries are lax and dubious and do not fully understand what is acceptable sexually in adult relationships - this does not make those things acceptable.

I'm not in any way trying to say those examples apply to the OP, just explain why saying that rape being a matter of opinion is far too black-and-white thinking and very un-perceptive and naive.

The fact is, the OP does find what her husband did totally wrong and unacceptable and she keeps telling him this. He is denying it and trying to say she's being ridiculous and hysterical, etc. The fact that he won't even admit that it upset her is very worrying.

Posters trying to tell her that it wasn't a violation (however slight) and trying to come up with excuses for his behaviour do not help the OP in any way and actually back up what her husband is saying (that she's being stupid to get so upset over it). Is that what you are trying to achieve? Because belittling what he did to her and how it made her feel is exactly what your comments do, even if that's not your intention. You seem to have a personal agenda about this issue, yet accuse others of having an agenda to split them up! I just want the OP to be safe and respected in her own home and to never have to have a partner treat her badly again (sexually and otherwise). With a husband trying to grind her down to deny her own hurt, she needs support to own her feelings that it was a violation, even if she doesn't want to label it.

Rachy, ccpccp, etc - I worked briefly in family law and one of the lowlights was having to explain to a client that she had been raped. Her partner had held a knife to her and told her that he'd stab her if she didn't have sex with him, so she did. She thought it wasn't rape because she consented. Believe me, that was rape, and the fact she thought it wasn't made no difference at all.

Apologies OP, I know this isn't helpful. Hope you're okay (and YANBU).

it seems that this is Marital Rape, his penis entered the vagina without consent in a child bed.

Just read the whole thread.

OP YANBU and I really hope that you find the support that you need to work out what you need to do next. I am very sorry that this happened to you.

On the rape/not rape conversation. Legally this was rape, that's just a fact. penetration without consent = rape. She said "what are you doing" - hardly encouraging, and he shoved his penis inside her. What she decides to do about that is up to her.

I don't understand all of these comments about "well it can't be rape as she wants to try to sort it out with him". That is nonsensical. If he had slapped her in the face and she said that she wanted to sort it out with him would people be saying that it wasn't an assault.

Either way and whatever the OP calls it, it was an awful thing that he did and those who are saying that he has needs and she's obviously not been seeing to him enough should hang their heads IMO.

What I really wanted though was clarification on something upthread that upset me. Bluegrass said:

"Actually a jury would decide if it was rape. Whatever delusions of grandeur MN has, it's collective "wisdom" based on a single persons posted version of events on an anonymous message board is, in fact, insufficient to determine whether a rape took place. Sorry, this is how it works. "

Does this mean that a woman has never been raped unless someone is convicted of the assault?

Im speechless at some of the comments on here. Someone grabbing your breasts and manipulating you into sex is sexually abusive. Thats sureley bad enough on its own without the incidant where Lotswife was sleeping.

Im amazed that women will excuse this and come up with a range of pathetic excuses for him. Men who are sexually abusive just are , it cant be fixed or reasoned away. Its highly likeley hes been sexually abusive in previous relationships too. While ridiculous excuses are made for men like this they will continue to be abusive.

Hes not upset / confused or desperate for sex. Hes angry that his wife wont let him grab at her and treat her like a blow up doll.

If this guy is really so stupid / confused ect that he doesnt know its wrong he,d be doing it to everyone and he,d have been in prison years ago.

" Rape is a matter of opinion " .
No its not , and its certainly not defined by your opinion either. Its defined by the law which is very clear.

I don't understand the "rape is a matter of opinion" thing either. Combined with the comment that rape can only be decided by juries, you have a result which says that about 99% of rapes in the UK aren't actually happening at all.

Attitudes like these are reasons that women carry their stories around for years, unable to talk to anyone. Because they know that if they try to tell others about things that have happened to them, unless it's a stranger/alleyway event, they will be told they're over-reacting/don't be so silly/you misunderstood/the poor bloke got mixed messages etc etc Another thread where the rape myths are in action for all to see - a man penetrates his partner without her consent, she has never given consent for this activity, she did not consent on this occasion, and apparently it's not rape.

People seem to want to redefine the definition of rape, why do they want to do that, how will it help women who are attacked by partners if the law is changed to say that when people are in a relationship there are times when he may penetrate her without her consent and this is fine.

TBE