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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

not to have sex with DH?

365 replies

lotswife · 19/11/2010 15:01

My libido's been a bit crap since DC3 was born. I used to be up for it loads, but it got harder and harder to get turned on/in the mood - needed more effort on DH's part which he just didn't put in.

We had some talks about it as he was feeling rejected and unloved and I was feeling hassled and like he was only interested in sex.

He said he'd try to make more of an effort to make me feel desired (rather than like a blow up doll - his idea of foreplay was just to grab my tits or my bits and then expect me to be ready and waiting).

Then there were two incidents which really shook me. About 6 months ago I was asleep in DC2's bed (she'd been crying and I'd gone to soothe her and fallen asleep). DC2 had woken up and climbed over me to go and play with the other DCs. DH came to find me - and I woke up with him pulling up my nightie and parting my buttocks. I said 'what are you doing?' - but quietly as I thought DC1 was asleep in the other bed (v disoriented). He said "you're very wet, so I thought I'd take advantage" and put his cock in me! I shoved him away and we had a huge row.

I thought it was totally inappropriate (even though the DCs weren't in the room), and he kept saying that I was wet so he thought I wanted it (wanted what?! I was asleep). I felt really dirty and disgusting and like DH didn't respect me at all as a person.

We barely had sex after that. I just had no desire towards him at all. Then last week he was hassling me again - I was just about to drop off to sleep and he was a bit tipsy after a work night out - and I said I wasn't in the mood and he said I was never in the mood and it wasn't a marriage without sex.

I said that it was hard to fancy someone who'd just stick their cock in their sleeping wife. He said I was making excuses.

We've barely talked since. AIBU?

OP posts:
EricNorthmansMistress · 19/11/2010 18:26

ccpccp

Why would you expect him to see that its he who needs to change?

because she's tried to calmly and rationally explain to him why she feels their sex life is going downhill, for a while before this incident. ~~He doesn't give a fuck about her feelings.

sausagelover · 19/11/2010 18:30

My DH once woke up with morning glory and I went down on him, he woke up and was not all that happy! I thought it was a male fantasy. maybe that was totally in the wrong? I've never done it again anyway.

EricNorthmansMistress · 19/11/2010 18:33

The rights or wrongs of that are for you and DH to work out sausagelover, but I will say that lots of men get morning glory but need to pee first thing, so they won't actually enjoy you getting on it before they get a chance to pee!

peeringintothevoid · 19/11/2010 18:51

I've already answered that dignified.

ccpccp · 19/11/2010 18:56

Just trying to play devils advocate EricNorthmansMistress.

Where you see rape, I see a husband grabbing a hopeful quickie from his wife while the kids are out of the room (and misreading the situation).

Where you see a nasty bastard husband who doesnt give a fuck about her feelings, I see a husband who has gone from confused hurt to anger because no matter how hard he tries his wife is having none of it, and has started to move goalposts that their relationship is partially built upon.

No doubt the truth is somewhere in between.

I can tell you one thing though - the answer isnt to drag the OP off to the feminist board and explain to her the steps she needs to take in her rape case.

peeringintothevoid · 19/11/2010 19:00

I agree with ccpccp - I don't see anything to be gained by putting words in the OP's mouth, and exhorting her to leave the father of her three young children, when she clearly stated that she doesn't want a divorce, and considers her DH a good husband (apart from this) and a great father. It sounds like she needs advice on how to get through to her DH that his behaviour is making the situation worse - to me it's a communication issue, rather than a divorce and rape allegation case.

dignified · 19/11/2010 19:07

Peering , i missed that , but yes, i see you have . I find it very odd . It would seem the law protects me from being molested by strangers but not from my husband. Rubbish.

Cp , re him being confused , hurt , angry i fail to see what he has to be confused about. The ops told him she doesnt like being groped and being harassed for sex. Why would that be confusing ?

And as for no matter how hard he trys his wife is having none of it, what bollocks. If you insist on groping and being vile to someone , guess what , they wont want to have sex with you. If he doesnt understand that hes either got a learning disability or theres something very wrong.

When someone says " i dont like that " , it stops . When someone chooses not to hear that they are doing it deliberateley.

I,ll say it again ,sexual harrassment and groping can be used as a way to bully and wear down a person. Are we really suggesting that this man is soooo fucking stupid that when he gropes his wife and she says she doesnt like it, hes confused ? He knows full well what hes doing.

" I dont want to have sex with you because of abc ". What normal person continues to do abs ?

EricNorthmansMistress · 19/11/2010 19:31

She's asked him not to grope her. She's explained why she felt violated by what he did. She's asked him to make more effort with foreplay. He doesn't want to hear any of that and just hears that she's got a problem. Seriously, TWAT.

(I never ever said he was a rapist. I would not advise OP to report him to the police. However, what he did shows as little respect for her bodily autonomy as a rapist would.)

dignified · 19/11/2010 19:33

Op , i suggest you ring womens aid and tell them what youve told us . They can refer you to a local womens centre for free counselling ( they often have childcare too ).

At this stage i wouldnt worry whether your H will go for counselling or not , thats up to him , your priority should be getting yourself some support and understanding of the situation.

Theres obviously other issues going on here , the fact he doesnt listen to you , tells you what you feel is wrong , decides how you should react ect. Dont buy into this nonsense he doesnt get it .

tabouleh · 19/11/2010 19:39

An invitation to the feminist board does not mean OP would be told how to proceed in a rape case FFS.

Anyway on the facts it was attempted rape not rape.

Labelling the behaviour is damn important.

Attempted rape and rape are illegal. Not wanting to have sex with your husband is not.

Setting aside the violent disagreement between myself and other posters for a minute:

Please those of you who disagree with me and similar posts please answer re:

This happening in DCs room.

If you continue to not engage on that point then we will know your purpose on this thread.

Also those going on about OP moving goalposts, sex vital to marriage blah blah why the he'll aren't you asking about OPs situation wrt to childcare, housework, input from her husband on these items?

SGBs post said it all.

ccpccp · 19/11/2010 19:41

"I never ever said he was a rapist."

Apologies EricNorthmansMistress - I just bunched you in with the rest. Should have read back a bit.

EricNorthmansMistress · 19/11/2010 19:44

However I did label the action as attempted rape, which, by legal definitions, it is.

Dolittlest · 19/11/2010 19:44

Late to this thread.

Fwiw, OP, I would find what your husband did utterly shocking and unforgivable. I'm so sorry. It's just not normal or loving behaviour. Seriously weird and nasty. I don't blame you for never wanting him to touch you again.

ccpccp · 19/11/2010 19:47

"This happening in DCs room."

It happened in DCs room but DCs were away playing if I read it correctly.

"Also those going on about OP moving goalposts, sex vital to marriage blah blah why the he'll aren't you asking about OPs situation wrt to childcare, housework, input from her husband on these items?"

The OP has issues with her libido which she needs to identify and resolve. Could be issues in your list are contributing to it. Has anyone said differently?

dignified · 19/11/2010 19:59

The op doesnt have problems with her libido , she has problems with her mauling disrespectfull husband and has identified and communicated this clearly eg

My libido's been a bit crap since DC3 was born. I used to be up for it loads, but it got harder and harder to get turned on/in the mood - needed more effort on DH's part which he just didn't put in.

Im finding some of the attitudes on this thread really disturbing , and until these attitudes change , men will continue to feel entitled to behave how they want , knowing theres a range of ready made excuses available to them.

StillMooing · 19/11/2010 20:01

Whist your DH was very wrong to do what he did, I don't think it was rape, he stopped when he realised his advances where not welcome.
The problem now is his failure to see how much this has upset you and how insensitive he is being to your feelings.

Have you thought about writing him a letter and asking him to read it then write one back to you, It would help you get across how hurt you are without a row and he can express how he's feeling too.

You say he's a good father and generaly a good husband, if so its worth trying to sort things out. Make it clear to him that sex is off the menu for the forseable future (you don't want him thinking if he goes along with this there will be something in it for him iuswim)but that this is the first step to getting things on track.

StillMooing · 19/11/2010 20:02

Sorry 'were not welcome' (feeding DD)

CrawlingInMySkin · 19/11/2010 20:10

Please be careful op I have name changed for this but when I was younger my long term boyfriend and I was having problem within our relationship and he did something almost exactly the same as your DH but when I pushed him off he stopped. People convinced me he did not try to rape me and I let it go but in his mind this was me saying it was ok to treat me like this but I refused sex as I was still confused.

A few months later he did it again but this time when I pushed him off he forced my face further into the pillow till I could barely breathe and kept pounding away with no regard afterwords he claimed he had not heard me say no. Again after much arguing I let it go as it was not rape.

Two months after this I was getting ready to go out and he called me a dirty whore he slapped me to the floor and repeatedly hit me and kicked me when the fight had left me he forced me on to my stomach and made me have anal sex something I had never consented to afterwords I tried to slither away and he grabbed my hair and pulled me back and rapped me vaginally instead.

Can people tell me at exactly which point rape becomes rape? Please op make him attend counselling at least I had been with this person for years and none of this started until he felt like I was pulling away physically from him before then we were very happy.

CrawlingInMySkin · 19/11/2010 20:12

He was also extremily kind and caring before that and would always listen to me cook me something if I was not well in fact he was more caring and attentive than any other partner I have ever had.

tabouleh · 19/11/2010 20:14

ccpccp I would like to ask (respectfully) whether you are a man or a woman.

Also re "The OP has issues with her libido which she needs to identify and resolve. Could be issues in your list are contributing to it. Has anyone said differently?"

I find this constant mentioning of "libido" to be ridiculous without talking about the general state of the relationship - caring/respect/shared parenting etc.

To me it is only those who are calling it like it is who are actually bothering to ask OP about domestic situation etc.

Others prefer to dismiss what has happened to OP and stress that she work on her libido.

What about suggesting that OP's husband gets a legal dictionary and finds out what rape is and APOLOGISES and agrees to go to counselling.

Scorpette · 19/11/2010 20:18

Sorry, this will be long!

I cannot believe that a few posters are trying to suggest that men aren't very good at understanding their partners' signals. What could signal NO more than their partner being asleep, ie unconscious?! Or that he was just trying to be sexy and got his signals wrong! Touching your partner sexily/lovingly whilst they sleep to see if they wake and fancy a bit of action is one thing (though I find that a bit creepy, whoever's doing it, but each to their own), lifting your sleeping wife's nightie up to shove your cock in her vagina when she knows nothing about it, can't say yes or no and especially when you haven't done one single thing to make sure she's feeling arousal too is sickening, wrong and 100% unacceptable.

10 year old girls get wet, 100 year old nuns get wet, women in comas get wet, hell, fresh corpses can have wet vaginas - does this mean that all those females are wanting sex?! It's absolute nonsense! By his own admission, this man thought that the only sign of consent was vaginal lubrication. Are we supposed to believe that a grown man, who's fathered 3 children knows so little about basic anatomy and about the reasons why a vagina would be wet?! Don't make my arse laugh!

I asked my DP for his opinion on this and read the OP out to him - he crinkled his face in disgust and said, 'Why would anyone want sex with someone who's asleep? How could that turn you on?'. He then got a bit upset and mumbled and when I asked him what he'd said, he replied that he wished I'd not read it out to him, as it had never occurred to him that someone would do such a thing and it had really disturbed him. BTW, I am very ill in pregnancy and we haven't had sex for 3 months and he hasn't complained once and he has a high sex drive. A man who respects his partner, loves her and cares for her needs and feelings would never do such a thing in a thousand years, no matter how sexually frustrated, rejected or confused he was. It makes me worry about the relationships of the women on here who think this wasn't a big deal!

OP, what your DH did was attempted rape. Rape does not have to be a massive, terifying, violent act or even have criminal intent behind it - it is, quite literally, penetration without consent and that is what he was attempting. Was his intention to rape or assault you? No, it doesn't sound like it. But it does sound like he doesn't care very much for your feelings and wishes and he certainly doesn't respect your body and that is a very big problem indeed. After many years together and 3 children, one of whom may be SN and is v demanding, it's pathetic, immature and disgraceful for him to be whining about you not having the same sex drive now as you did when you first got together. And 'I'm sorry you're upset' is a bullshit passive-aggressive non-apology, meaning 'I've done nothing wrong, but you're upset for some reason, so if I apologise will you shut up about it?'. There's times when everyone want sex but their partner doesn't, male and female, but you either drop the subject or go sort yourself out. You're not his personal wank-sock and the fact that he can't see what he did wrong or feel genuine remorse is very worrying. I do think this sounds like a final straw, from what you're saying and that counselling is a must.

Finally, listen to your own instincts. It is your relationship and you know what the boundaries are within it and if they've been crossed. You clearly feel like this is unacceptable and a violation and that his inability or refusal to accept that he was wrong and that he's upset you points to a deeper malaise within your relationship. If that's how you feel, regardless of whatever any of us say, then you must be true to yourself. Good luck.

Actuallawyer · 19/11/2010 20:19

This is the current definition of rape:

"(1)A person (A) commits an offence if?

(a)he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis,

(b)B does not consent to the penetration, and

(c)A does not reasonably believe that B consents.

(2)Whether a belief is reasonable is to be determined having regard to all the circumstances, including any steps A has taken to ascertain whether B consents."

The OP is best placed to comment on whether her DH had a reasonable belief that she would consent to it. I think we can all agree that her DH got it wrong and she is reasonable to be hurt and upset. This behaviour cannot continue. I don't think it's particularly helpful to tell her what she must and mustn't do.

secretskillrelationships · 19/11/2010 20:21

I don't really understand the rape/not rape arguement going on here. The OP clearly feels that a boundary was crossed and that she wants her H to acknowledge that. She has expressed that to him clearly and repeatedly. He has failed to acknowledge her feelings or accept that what he did was in any way 'wrong'.

Of course, she doesn't want to have sex with him because what she wants is to make love and you can't do that with someone who refuses to engage with you when you are distressed about something (almost regardless of what is distressing you). You need to feel that you are valued as an individual and that your feelings are important. Without that it's only every going to be a shag - great if that's what you want but very unfulfilling if you want a real connection with someone.

I think your fear that this is becoming a dealbreaker is very valid. I suspect you also feel very disorientated because you simply do not understand why he is behaving the way he is behaving. FWIW I think it would be helpful for you to have some counselling so you can explore some of the dynamics within your relationship. And I would recommend you go by yourself - if he is controlling there is a real risk that he will use the counselling to learn more subtle ways of controlling you.

I had issues with my libido thoughout my relationship with my ex which I worked hard to deal with. When we finally went to Relate it turned out that he seriously believes that I don't enjoy sex and never have. Nothing either I nor the counsellor said made any difference to his view. Since then I realised that my libido issues had more to do with his attitude to sex and how he acted rather than any 'problem' I had. My body was rebelling to his attitude and I only wish I'd listened to it.

Interestingly, my libido is stronger than ever now we've separated and I have a much healthier attitude to and relationship with my sexuality (even though I am the only one meeting that need!).

tabouleh · 19/11/2010 20:22

CrawlingInMySkin - how awful Sad - well done for being brave and trying to help OP.

StillMooing and others:

FFS WE ARE NOT SAYING IT IS RAPE WE ARE SAYING THAT IT WAS ATTEMPTED RAPE.

That is still a crime you know.

Like attempted burglary - a burglary was about to be committed and something happened to stop it - it's still a crime.

some people obviously do not think that there is such a crime as Attempted Rape.

You think that because he stopped and didn't go on to commit rape that it's all ok.Hmm

ChippingIn · 19/11/2010 20:26

Lotswife I think it's vital that you go and see a counsellor - go on your own for a session or two, let that help you to decide if counselling with DH will help or not.

Good luck x

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