to not want to perpetuate the Santa myth?

[WriterofDreams]

I know this might seem totally weird, and I am completely open to being told IABU, so do your worst!

My first baby is on the way and DH and I have been talking about the whole Santa thing. We're both a little ambivalent about it. I hate hate hate lying to children as I was lied to a lot as a child, not necessarily in a nasty way, more in a dismissive, "none of your business" sort of way. It made a big impression on me. I was a very intelligent and horrendously serious child (I see that now) but the Santa thing was something that hacked me off big time. From about the age of 4 Santa stopped making sense to me and I bombarded my mum with questions which were responded to with lie after lie after lie.

I know she was trying to keep the "magic" alive for me but it was truly baffling to me as a child and really annoyed me. For example, I thought, if Santa can get around the world in one night, why does it take 24 hours to get to Australia? Why doesn't he sell his technology to people who are in disaster areas and help them rather than giving out plastic crap to children? All this got me was "because he's magic." That just didn't wash at all with me, and Santa actually became this scary figure who had huge power but wouldn't share it with anyone else. The whole elves and toy workshop thing just confused me more, as I was aware toys were made by toy companies who sold them for profit. Yes, I know, I was a ridiculous child.

I had hugely mixed feelings when I discovered Santa wasn't real. This happened when I was about 6 but I didn't let on as I thought I wouldn't get presents if I didn't pretend to believe (another negative thing). On the one hand I felt relieved he wasn't real because it answered all my questions. On the other hand I felt annoyed at my mum for not just telling me he wasn't real when it was clear I was so hung up about the whole thing (I realise now she was trying to protect my older sister, who still believed).

I just know I'm going to have a hard time pretending to my LO that Santa exists. I hate that perplexed look on children's faces when you can see they know you're lying but they're trying to believe because they trust you and don't think you could lie to them :(
At the same time I know that not having the Santa thing would mark him out as totally different from other kids and could make life really hard for him, particularly if he feels left out.

Any opinions?

I don't mind pretending with children at all Agentzigzag but to me that's a different thing entirely. Usually when I pretend with a child it's very clear that what we're doing isn't real. It's true that children invest a lot of emotion in pretending and it can seem as if they believe it's real but if you ask them they'll tell you in no uncertain terms that it isn't real at all. The issue that gets me around Santa is making out that it is real. I suppose I could say to my kids that we'll pretend that Santa comes but I'm not sure that'd make much impact.

Maybe "playing the Santa game" would be easier, but again I think if children knew that Santa wasn't real I think they'd be a bit perplexed as to why we were pretending he was visiting at all. Hmmm unless DH dresses up as him, which he would absolutely love Hmmm ideas....

I know a lot of it comes from my own childhood and my general weirdness as a child, but I struggle to see the point of Santa at all really. I don't think I'll be missing out if I don't do the Santa thing as he and I don't really see eye to eye and I'd rather not have him back in my life. As a child I loved imagination and adored stories but I also found the real world fascinating and was always annoyed when adults didn't bother telling me the truth about things. I was always a little scientist/logician at heart and it offended my sense of order to be asked to believe in rubbish

Whenever I've talked to DD1 about FC (she doesn't believe in him any more) it was always with a twinkle in my eye, I never sat her down and seriously told her about it in a deliberate lying way.

Lying I associate with one person doing it for a gain of some sort at the expense of the other person, but who is gaining from FC? (if you take out the commercialism bit).

I gained in that I saw the look of excitement in DD1s face and knew I was doing something nice for her, and she has gained by knowing the excitement I adored of waking up on Christmas day and feeling the rustly stocking at the end of her bed knowing he'd been. No one is being exploted.

DD was quite upset when she asked me whether the fairy I'd told her about who I said lived in our apple tree was real, and because she asked directly I told her he wasn't.

We'd made up stories about him, given him bits of food we'd baked, wrote letters to him, you could say I was lying but how could it have been wrong in this case? It enhanced her and her life. FC is the same.

"I was a very intelligent and horrendously serious child" (the OP)

"The child is father of the man" (Wordsworth)

HTH

Having just read the OP (so sorry if you have added more info but I wanted to give my opinion as it is now rather than my opinion after seeing 50 other people's opinions) it sounds as if the problem is not that you were told that Santa was real but that there were communication and/or trust issues between you and your parents.

I cannot remember a time when I believed Father Christmas was real, but I never felt that my parents were deceiving me or that they had malicious intentions.

Assuming that you will not have these issues with your own child there is no reason why you should not play along with the game, and it will most likely be nicer for your child (and even for you too) if you do play along.

YABU and IMO you are taking the whole thing way too seriously.

Your parents must have had a funny old way of talking about Santa for it to have left you with those kind of memories - maybe it's more to do you being 'lied to alot as a child' than anything else. From what you've said they perhaps didn't say and do much to make it sound very 'magical' for you.

I think it would be a shame for your LO's miss out because of your parents. Surely we take the good bits from our memories of our parents when we were kids and change or dump the bad bits? So what's wrong with making up some magical stories about Santa, as long as your children look like they're enjoying the whole idea? I'm assuming you'll be a much better parent than the parenting you can remember now, so your children are very unlikely to look back on your stories about Santa as 'lies'; more as part of the magic of Christmas as a child.

I was brought up by a parent who was an advocate of 'telling it how it is' and that 'life is no fairy tale.'

Twas a bit miserable.

How has it made you feel about Christmas GoodnightNobody?

Do you do the FC thing with your DC?

Life can be shit, but if I can help it I don't want the DCs to know that until they're able to deal with it.

Let them down gently like.

Can I just reassure you, Writer, that finding out about father christmas doesn't have to be devastating for children. We did the FC thing from the word go with our boys, and they loved it - for me, it reinforced for them the fact that there is kindness and benevolence in the world, and they enjoyed the magic of it too.

I know now that there came a time when ds1 realised (or was told) that FC was not real - it was his dad and me - but he didn't ask about it and carried on the pretence because he enjoyed it. In fact, by the time that I asked them if they still believed (when ds3 was about 8 or 9 iirc), it turned out that they all knew it was me and dh, but were going along with it so as not to spoil it for us! And we still do it now, with the added benefit that they know all the presents are from us, and we get the gratitude.

They certainly haven't come away with a sense that they can't trust their father or myself any more.

God I don't think I'd have that approach Goodnight At least I hope not. I love playing and pretending with children and I am not in any way a fan of heaping harsh truths on them or making them see life as a miserable chore. I'm just more in favour of being upfront with children and respecting their point of view on things.

I don't really blame my parents for my point of view on the whole thing - I was rather a strange child if I'm honest. They were trying to stop my older sister from finding out that Santa wasn't real and so they lied when I asked them outright about whether he was real. I was all up for pretending, I just couldn't figure out why they were insisting he was real!

porcupine11 yes our FC wraps his pressies in crepe paper or tissue and ribbon. Somehow can't imagine elves wrapping presents with glossy paper and sellotape.

I am starting to feel a little xmassy just thinking about it :-)

Out of interest, StayingDavidTennantsGirl if your DCs had asked you outright before you asked them, what would you have said?

Christmas was fine, lacking in spirit though.

Both my children know about why we celebrate Christmas and yes, I go all out for Father Christmas and do all the Christmassy things.My DD's love the stories, the myth the rituals, the richness and joy of celebration.

Taking part in the collective celebration has helped me let go and enjoy life more now that I have a family of my own. It also (I hope) gives my children a sense of belonging to tradition.

They will question the magic soon enough and find out in their own good time.

My children are 15 and 11 now. They look back on younger christmases as lovely magical times. They remember the sooty footprints on the sitting room carpet, the broken carrot in the grate, the half drunk sherry and the crumbled mince pie. They have very very happy christmas memories and ds has said in recent years - it was great that you made it so real mum. There were also special moments when ds got bigger and was let in on the secret to keep in special for dd.

DS believed until quite late, about 8 and happily kept it up for dd until she was about 7. We all then pretended for a year or two.

Paradoxically, at three DS sat on a double decker on the way back from seeing Santa and announced to the bus "it's a bit silly cos one santa couldn't deliver all those presents" But we didn't let it spoil anything.

Please let your dc to be have lovely, special christmases, even if you do all think it's a bit of a lark. When they are teenagers, they might never be the same again. We are looking forward to our third Christmas without Grandad .

I would have told them the truth, Writer. I would also have asked them not to tell other children who did still believe, so as not to upset them. A friend did exactly this when her ds asked her for the truth, and he knew long before my dc knew, but didn't let on.

I certainly wouldn't have lied, if asked a direct question.

just about the lying aspect there are some truths in life that children do not need to know. How will you handle the how are babies made asked by a very young child?

my dd asked when 2 how do babies get into tummies, i did not tell her the truth on this one, she is 4 now and clearly does not belive my explinations and so I add a little more of the truth as she is able to comprehend.

As an afterthought - we did Santa, and the tooth fairy (had a bad moment when I forgot and had to say that as he hadn't gone to sleep by 9 she had started her rounds and he wasn't on her rota sheet and the Easter Bunny a bit but mostly for Easter egg hunts.

But we have never ever lied to the children about anything else at all. That may be why they have such fond memories of the magicalness of it.

If my child asked about babies I would gauge how much he actually wanted to know and answer his question honestly. I don't have any shame around the whole baby-making thing (which is unusual for a Catholic!)and in my experience children handle the truth very well. Telling lies is completely pointless. If a child wants to know about the world why not tell them?

Don't agree with Ginoda - DS at about three once picked up a "balloon" (YUK) and said "wassis mummy" I had no hesitation is saying it's a plastic cover men sometimes have to put on their willies! It was, why say something different? No more questions though - thinking about it perhaps a wee pack might be in order for his Santa's Xmas stocking this year.

I was a bit of scientist as a child (mentally I mean, working stuff out and testing ideas) and just regarded finding out about FC as yet more evidence that grown ups were very strange creatures indeed. Nice but barking!

For instance, I got into trouble going to see the FC in our village hall and answering 'Have you been a good girl?' with 'Yes, Daddy'. Well, how was I supposed to know I wasn't supposed to recognise my own father? I must have been six at most as we moved from that house when I was seven.

Don't resent it at all, and love the fact that my Dad, dh and one BIL are all FCs. Now ds knows about Daddy being FC at school I think I'll take him to see Granddad being FC on the Severn Valley Railway - haven't risked it so far just in case it spoilt things.

I remember being about 6, & some "big kid" telling all us little ones the ins & outs of sex & babies in graphic detail I clearly remember thinking it was so disgusting that it couldn't possibly be true & therefore, he was a big fat liar

personally I find prefixing with "maybe" is good,no lies, but allows Kids to perpetuate the myth if they want to - I forgot to play fairy money for DD a while back, DD was very upset , until thinking on my feet I came up with "maybe it wasn't allowed to fly because of all the volcanic ash in the air, what do YOU think" she was happy to believe :)

mind you on another occasion she asked how come the doors in the supermarket opened when we stepped near, I replied along the lines of "oh, maybe theres a friendly little elf hiding who opens them for us :), to which I got "you just think I'm stupid don't you, its electronic" she was 4 at the time , I just laughed & said, "you got me", & she thought it was hilarious ......as did the elderly woman passing us, who nearly chocked laughing:)

Your DD sounds priceless rockinhippy

I can see where your coming from OP. When it dawned on me as a child (after having an argument with kids in my class about it) that Santa wasn't real, I felt really cheated and upset! Think I kind of mourned a little. I also got in trouble from mum when I talked about the fact Santa was fake in front of a kid younger than me, who believed in him. I felt this was really unfair and didn't understand i had to pretend.

But on the other hand I have really happy memories of waking up in the middle of the night and feeling my stocking was full of pressies :-)

I'm not sure how I will handle it with my DD when she is old enough. Maybe I'll let her believe in him rather than talk about Santa and tell her she has to behave for him etc. I guess everyone expects you to go along with it.

I'm having a crap day today so feeling a bit vague humbug. Merry f-ing Christmas.

Bah not vague! Grr