to not want to perpetuate the Santa myth?

[WriterofDreams]

I know this might seem totally weird, and I am completely open to being told IABU, so do your worst!

My first baby is on the way and DH and I have been talking about the whole Santa thing. We're both a little ambivalent about it. I hate hate hate lying to children as I was lied to a lot as a child, not necessarily in a nasty way, more in a dismissive, "none of your business" sort of way. It made a big impression on me. I was a very intelligent and horrendously serious child (I see that now) but the Santa thing was something that hacked me off big time. From about the age of 4 Santa stopped making sense to me and I bombarded my mum with questions which were responded to with lie after lie after lie.

I know she was trying to keep the "magic" alive for me but it was truly baffling to me as a child and really annoyed me. For example, I thought, if Santa can get around the world in one night, why does it take 24 hours to get to Australia? Why doesn't he sell his technology to people who are in disaster areas and help them rather than giving out plastic crap to children? All this got me was "because he's magic." That just didn't wash at all with me, and Santa actually became this scary figure who had huge power but wouldn't share it with anyone else. The whole elves and toy workshop thing just confused me more, as I was aware toys were made by toy companies who sold them for profit. Yes, I know, I was a ridiculous child.

I had hugely mixed feelings when I discovered Santa wasn't real. This happened when I was about 6 but I didn't let on as I thought I wouldn't get presents if I didn't pretend to believe (another negative thing). On the one hand I felt relieved he wasn't real because it answered all my questions. On the other hand I felt annoyed at my mum for not just telling me he wasn't real when it was clear I was so hung up about the whole thing (I realise now she was trying to protect my older sister, who still believed).

I just know I'm going to have a hard time pretending to my LO that Santa exists. I hate that perplexed look on children's faces when you can see they know you're lying but they're trying to believe because they trust you and don't think you could lie to them :(
At the same time I know that not having the Santa thing would mark him out as totally different from other kids and could make life really hard for him, particularly if he feels left out.

Any opinions?

Writerofdreams you as a young child sound like I was! Growing up we had stocking and big present in room "from father christmas" and the presents under the tree were from who they were from. Everyone has their own family traditions but I find it odd when people insist that everything has to be from father christmas, even if it means that granny never gets a thank-you for knitting the hat and gloves etc.

I know these things cause emotion to run high on MN though!

WriterofDreams TBH and IMHO every family makes their own traditions for christmas, and they don't need to include the standard components to be special

Oh, and I sympathise with you, Writer, being hacked off at your parents persisting with it after you were asking direct questions. Wouldn't do that.

Am anticipating ds asking this year after working out the Tooth Fairy and of course I will tell him the presents come from me and dh. Have never told him presents from other people are from FC, btw, people who do that are going too far IMO.

lol at 'don't be so pompous'.

writer you are coming across as a bit lacking in christmas spirit, you know. i think it might be a good idea to really work out what christmas is first of all. if it's a religious festival, you are fine and dandy. if it's just a big sickening splurge of consumerism then santa is the least of your concerns.

I see Christmas as a religious festival where people take the time to celebrate Jesus' birth and to remember each other by giving each other gifts. Santa is superfluous to all that IMO. It's far nicer in my eyes to see gifts as coming from people you love rather than a random man.

Aitch. Think you are right about working out what Christmas IS for a family.

Apologies, writer, I can see you are hacked off at your own parents. And you have a point re. the way they handled it.

Btw, I worked out it was Mummy and Daddy at a very tender age - definitely before we moved house when I was 7. I didn't react with horror, just thought 'gosh, aren't adults funny'.

Who described myths as lies though?

I think the whole santa thing is nice but people take it too far when they starting saying that santa won't come unless you're good etc.

Don't want to pick out posters - just do a search on 'lie' and you'll see it's a word that has been used a LOT on this thread.

I've read the thread and I didn't notice anyone saying that myths and stories were lies. Will reread.

Ok the myths/lies thing is a moot point because no one actually said that. The lie issue was in relation to parents lying to children when they had doubts about Santa being real, which edam agreed was unreasonable. Let's not get tangled up in it.

well you are home and hosed, then. just say that irreligious types say that santa brings the presents but we all know that it's the three kings.

personally i think you are over-thinking this, and your child will lose out, given that the minute your child gets to primary school the older kids line up to burst the santa bubble it really only lasts for a year or two nowadays.

I've done a search and re-read the thread and I still can't find anyone who said that. I'm confused as to why everyone had to get told off about something that I can't see anyone actually said.

Well my DCs (5.5 and 3.5) both kind of know that Santa isn't real but that doesn't stop them enjoying in participating in all hype around him. I'm not a really mean parent but we are Christians and so Christmas for us is more about the religious stuff, but also we live abroad somewhere where Christmas isn't such a big thing. I realise this makes it easier for us (Santa is definitely presented as myth here when presented at all) but I do also want my DCs to have an understanding of Christmas as it's celebrated in the UK.

Anyway, I think my point was that they understand that it's a story but that doesn't seem to make it any less fun for them.

Ok, if you are forcing my hand, it was anniebunny's post. But it's something that has been said before - every year, in fact.

I think it is important TBH. Rushing in and shouting about those who don't "do" father christmas being miserable horrible parents, who only allow their children to read reference books, and are devoid of basic human traits eg imagination. And then when questioned saying people are pompous. Where did it all come from? I found it quite an aggressive post and I don't understand what triggered it.

Oi, if you read the thread you'll see I apologised for 'pompous'.

Ok seeing as someone has seen fit to mock my religion I'm bowing out of this thread. Thanks for your views guys, appreciate it :)

I'm off too, this thread's upset me for some reason

lol, isnt, let it go. "Edam I would appreciate it if you would read the whole thread before commenting" was pomposity itself, and the whole thread is rather precious.

no one is advocating lying to children directly, but they do love a fairy story, the more real the better. the OP's child isn't even born yet and she is projecting all sorts of things that she felt about her parents onto him or her.

oh i really fucking hope that i am not being had up for mocking someone's religion here... the three kings bring presents to children all over europe.

When I was a child, we kind of believed throughout primary school, or at least there was a kind of magic and excitement to the way stocking were magically filled with presents overnight, after leaving out carrot and mince pie for Santa.

The presents in our stockings were totally different from the kind under the tree, and wrapped in crepe paper, so they really seemed to come from a magical place. Gave me goosebumps every Christmas eve putting the stocking at the end of the bed, so I'll be doing the same for my boys when they're old enough. DS1 just turned 2 so maybe this year...

OP - I felt exactly the same, although easier for me as I am jewish, my annoyance was more at my parents insisting that there really was a tooth fairy.

Told DD was a very small age that tooth fairies are just pretend, half the other mums at school not talking to me as DD told all her friends, etc.

We still make a big fuss about tooth falling out, just DD knows its me or DH who puts money under her pillow.

Blimey the thread took a sudden turn as I was writing my post! Well it made me feel Christmassy anyway

well yes, porcupine, i thought it was all in good part but if it is my post that has caused a flounce, well, i would like an apology tbh. if the OP is a christian she should know that most euros get their main christmas presents on the epiphany, when the three kings arrive. in italy, for example, babbo natale brings a little gift on christmas or christmas eve, dependent on family, but the rest of the gifts come later. (or they get a lump of coal from a witch if they've been bad.)