to not want to perpetuate the Santa myth?

[WriterofDreams]

I know this might seem totally weird, and I am completely open to being told IABU, so do your worst!

My first baby is on the way and DH and I have been talking about the whole Santa thing. We're both a little ambivalent about it. I hate hate hate lying to children as I was lied to a lot as a child, not necessarily in a nasty way, more in a dismissive, "none of your business" sort of way. It made a big impression on me. I was a very intelligent and horrendously serious child (I see that now) but the Santa thing was something that hacked me off big time. From about the age of 4 Santa stopped making sense to me and I bombarded my mum with questions which were responded to with lie after lie after lie.

I know she was trying to keep the "magic" alive for me but it was truly baffling to me as a child and really annoyed me. For example, I thought, if Santa can get around the world in one night, why does it take 24 hours to get to Australia? Why doesn't he sell his technology to people who are in disaster areas and help them rather than giving out plastic crap to children? All this got me was "because he's magic." That just didn't wash at all with me, and Santa actually became this scary figure who had huge power but wouldn't share it with anyone else. The whole elves and toy workshop thing just confused me more, as I was aware toys were made by toy companies who sold them for profit. Yes, I know, I was a ridiculous child.

I had hugely mixed feelings when I discovered Santa wasn't real. This happened when I was about 6 but I didn't let on as I thought I wouldn't get presents if I didn't pretend to believe (another negative thing). On the one hand I felt relieved he wasn't real because it answered all my questions. On the other hand I felt annoyed at my mum for not just telling me he wasn't real when it was clear I was so hung up about the whole thing (I realise now she was trying to protect my older sister, who still believed).

I just know I'm going to have a hard time pretending to my LO that Santa exists. I hate that perplexed look on children's faces when you can see they know you're lying but they're trying to believe because they trust you and don't think you could lie to them :(
At the same time I know that not having the Santa thing would mark him out as totally different from other kids and could make life really hard for him, particularly if he feels left out.

Any opinions?

The thing is though Doodling Santa is portrayed as being real. I would certainly encourage imagination in my children, in fact, I am appalled at the lack of imagination some school children have. But that is a separate thing to making up a character and expecting a child to think it's real. Imagination is about pretending

If my child developed a belief in Santa independently (which I think is unlikely) I wouldn't just bluntly say "no he isn't real" because I do have a heart. I would play it by ear and play along as much as he wanted me to. I'm just wondering about whether to introduce the whole thing myself.

By the way I am Catholic and so I celebrate Christmas as a religious festival. I wouldn't compare Santa to Jesus as belief in Santa is not a religion. I don't intend to bring up my child as Catholic but I will allow him to have the option of participating in that side of things if he so wishes.

There have been discussions about this on MN before - quite a lot actually.

I completely agree with you OP, although many won't. I don't like perpetuating the myth either and Christmas can be magical for a child without lying about the existence of some stranger who comes into the house at night.

I felt cheated by my parents when I found out the truth. I felt like I would never totally trust them again. The problem is that it's a lie that is embellished year after year so that when you find out the truth it's rather crushing.

It's a personal issue though - if you're not comfortable with it, don't do it.

showaddy is right, perhaps judge your own child, if they are like you and ask the same things etc etc you can bring them in on the "real secret". I don't agree with lying per se, but at the same time I think you will find when your baby comes you will say anything to protect them and not see that lip wobble!

I think you have a good point Showaddywaddy I do feel very strongly about the whole issue of lying to children, mainly because I was so clued in when I was a child and resented the fact that I was treated as stupid by most adults. I suppose it is a good idea to just go with the flow, but if he asked me directly if Santa was real I'm not sure I'd be able to lie.

I totally understand. I can't remember believing in any of those things - father christmas, tooth fairy etc. I knew it was my mum and dad. I mean, I jollied them along and pretended to look surprised and everything, but I can remember them being all "ooooh shall we see if father christmas has come" and me feeling a bit sorry for them acting their socks off.

And when we went to "see father christmas" I mean it was always a different bloke, in a fake beard, who on earth would believe that? (Well all the other children but still...)

I suppose I might have swallowed it when I was tiny but honestly I can't remember a time when I thought it was real. I did feel v grateful to my parents for doing it all though IYSWIM.

With the DDs we "do" father christmas, in that he will bring them some presents at christmas. Would never do the threat thing which is very common and some people do it all year round which is pretty sad IMO. If and when my children are about the whole thing I'll drop it TBH. Not the end of teh world, is it. Christmas (for me) is a time for a break from daily life, and to get together with extended family, spend time together just being together, the family traditions of christmas are a lovely time, the decorations and transformations are tangibly "magical"... Plenty to get excited about without belief, whether it's in Jesus or Father Christmas IMO.

I feel exactly the same as you and we don't 'do' Santa/tooth fairy/Easter bunny/'eat your crust it'll make your hair curly'. I just can't stand the idea of lying to my children and I believe it is perfectly possible to explain conplex things in a way that kids understand without lying.

My kids are 8, 8 and 4 and obviously have seen all the Santa crap everywhere and heard it from other people. We tell them that it's a story that some people tell children but that he isn't real- presents come from your family and friends.

The thing that really annoyed me was when my boys were three and we'd had along conversation on the way to nursery about water vapour condensing on leaves then freezing to explain how frost was made, then the nursery teachers told them that it was Jack Frost! Totally confused them!

YANBU!

yabu
it is a lovely fun thing to do(as long as you don't take it to extremes)

the reason i don't like to play up the santa thing too much is that a. it takes away from the religious festival and b. a lot of people are generous to the dds and i think they rather than santa should get the credit.

so of course we do the whole santa thing, and leave shortbread and whisky etc but we do say that he only brings their main present and that everyone else is being kind etc.

so not quite the same thing as the OP is saying, but i think actually it's an easier 'lie' because it's not such a major christmas thing if you are also at least a bit religious and then of course you are also very clear about who to be grateful to, iykwim?

Stories aren't lies. Myths and legends aren't lies. People who think they are have a distressingly limited view of the world.

Have the nay-sayers ever stopped to think WHY myths, legends and stories have persisted throughout human history? Every society has has them and has always had them. Why do you think storytelling is so popular in book, film, TV, music and art? Do you only allow your children to read reference books?

it was through necessity (we were bones of our arses skint from the kids being born to them being about 13) that the kids needed to know that we bought the presents, but santas magic made them work - they believe the magic if they want to and overlook huge gaping holes in explanations! the kids even had a bugdet to adhere to

no, but stories aren't the truth, if a child is asking baldly 'does santa really come on christmas eve or is it dad?' of course my plan in that instance is to distract by offering a percy pig. this is so often my parenting strategy.

veeeery glad to see so many people on here using the scottish santa btw rather than your englisher po-faced father christmas.

look here if you don't understand why fiction is important for humankind

The thing is, when I realised that all the presents were actually coming from my parents and not from some weird old man I appreciated them more. My parents didn't have much money but I always got what I wanted for Christmas (nothing very extravagant) and the fact they saved up and made the effort to please me was far more special and magical than a made up figure. I would appreciated honesty from them a lot more than the lies they kept telling me.

yyy custy growing up we had an argos catalogue and a budget, but it didn't remotely interfere with the santa thing when we were younger. and then when you twig, certainly if you are one of the older kids, you get the fun of keeping it going for the young ones.

You aren't "lying" if you aren't asked! (Although I don't put dd right when shaid ae tells me that the woods that we go past is where the gruffalo lives and in that wood pile is where snake lives etc etc) She has brought up FC and I haven't really said anything, although she has taken to bed hopping so I do sometimes ask her how fc is going to find her stocking if she isn't in her bed! .

oh god. yes, argos catalogue - my kids drooled for hours over it, getting the best they could for the budget

There is a difference between telling a story, and lying in response to direct questions.

If my DDs are like I was, I'm not going to meet their increasing scepticism with assertions that something they know is a load of rubbish is actually true. It's a PITA for everyone involved.

and the boys collaborating "if you get this, then i'll get that..."

Edam I would appreciate it if you would read the whole thread before commenting. I have already replied to your concern a number of times. To summarise what I have said, multiple times: I am hugely in favour of stories and imagination. In fact as child I wrote my own book of fairy stories. However, Santa is a story that children are expected to believe in as though he is real. That is a different thing entirely.

Stories are a way of understanding the world. They may not be 'true' in the sense of 'your eyes are brown' but they contain greater truths about human nature and experience. Storytelling is how people throughout history have understood the world and passed on important lessons to each other and their children.

'FGS, how many TIMES have I told you not to do down to the woods on your own and DEFINITELY do not try to eat that old ladies' cottage, do you hear?!'

But if asked directly, of course I'd admit FC is a story, not literally true. ds figured out the tooth fairy this year. Bless him, he was quite pleased that it was Mummy and Daddy who had done nice things for him.

Writer - I wasn't addressing you. Don't be so pompous.

My objection is to the description of myths as lies. They aren't lies. They are stories. There is a big difference.

I totally agree that stories are an important part of children's development. As you have pointed out, you don't read them Hansel and Gretel expecting them to believe that they really existed, you make it clear that it's just a story. Santa isn't portrayed like that at all for the most part.

Who described myths as lies?