to not want to perpetuate the Santa myth?

[WriterofDreams]

I know this might seem totally weird, and I am completely open to being told IABU, so do your worst!

My first baby is on the way and DH and I have been talking about the whole Santa thing. We're both a little ambivalent about it. I hate hate hate lying to children as I was lied to a lot as a child, not necessarily in a nasty way, more in a dismissive, "none of your business" sort of way. It made a big impression on me. I was a very intelligent and horrendously serious child (I see that now) but the Santa thing was something that hacked me off big time. From about the age of 4 Santa stopped making sense to me and I bombarded my mum with questions which were responded to with lie after lie after lie.

I know she was trying to keep the "magic" alive for me but it was truly baffling to me as a child and really annoyed me. For example, I thought, if Santa can get around the world in one night, why does it take 24 hours to get to Australia? Why doesn't he sell his technology to people who are in disaster areas and help them rather than giving out plastic crap to children? All this got me was "because he's magic." That just didn't wash at all with me, and Santa actually became this scary figure who had huge power but wouldn't share it with anyone else. The whole elves and toy workshop thing just confused me more, as I was aware toys were made by toy companies who sold them for profit. Yes, I know, I was a ridiculous child.

I had hugely mixed feelings when I discovered Santa wasn't real. This happened when I was about 6 but I didn't let on as I thought I wouldn't get presents if I didn't pretend to believe (another negative thing). On the one hand I felt relieved he wasn't real because it answered all my questions. On the other hand I felt annoyed at my mum for not just telling me he wasn't real when it was clear I was so hung up about the whole thing (I realise now she was trying to protect my older sister, who still believed).

I just know I'm going to have a hard time pretending to my LO that Santa exists. I hate that perplexed look on children's faces when you can see they know you're lying but they're trying to believe because they trust you and don't think you could lie to them :(
At the same time I know that not having the Santa thing would mark him out as totally different from other kids and could make life really hard for him, particularly if he feels left out.

Any opinions?

heheheh edam. nevertheless, hold that thought.

and writers, i am scottish catholic, with ties to italian catholic, and i still genuinely think that you are making too much of this. be aware, though, that you may not be a popular mother in nursery if you have told your kid that santa isn't real...

Oh, glad you are back, writer. And thanks re. dh. He does have his good points, bless him.

That's the main problem really Aitch, other people. I don't want other kids upset because my little darling is going around shattering their illusions. That said, I would like my little one to go to an ethnically diverse school where some of the children don't even have Christmas, so maybe it won't be an issue?

I know it seems I'm overthinking it but really it's just entered my mind because of the time of year, it doesn't tie me in knots or anything.

if you are in the UK, they will be taught the nativity regardless, but the one guy all the religious groups get behind, as i understand it so far, is santa. so many winter religious festivals around that time, from what i see he is the lesser evil when it comes to celebrating in a christian country.

"I just know I'm going to have a hard time pretending to my LO that Santa exists. I hate that perplexed look on children's faces when you can see they know you're lying but they're trying to believe because they trust you and don't think you could lie to them. "

it's this line that makes me think you are over-thinking. you really don't know yet what you are going to find it hard to do, imo. lying to someone's face is not the same, as you will know, as a sin of omission, and omission is all that will be called for.

The school I teach in doesn't mention Christmas at all, apart from in RE when covering religious rituals, so that they also cover hanukkah and other festivals like Divali and Eid. Most of the children are Hindu or Muslim, so there's no mention of Santa.

oh well then, send him to your school. (imaginary) problem solved.

I definitely wouldn't deliberately hammer home that Santa isn't real, but my issue is whether to start the whole thing at all? I get what you mean about a sin of omission, but when they're tiny children don't really learn about Santa at all until the parents mention it, so do I mention it or not? At the moment I'm leaning to not, but I just need to think about it. Of course part of the purpose of this thread it hashing out my own mommy issues (naturally).

i've never mentioned santa to dd2, she was only one and a bit last year and with dd2's birthday in december we focus on getting that over first before mentioning christmas.

nevertheless, she pointed santa out to me the other day. i guess she heard about him in nursery. she goes two mornings a week, has been in all eight times, but she can spot a santa a mile off already...

sorry, dd1's birthday.

Writer - they will find out about FC from other children/advertising/TV/ - the image and story are everywhere this time of year.

Plenty of Muslims (and other non-Christians) in the UK do have Christmas trees and send cards. One set of friends do the whole FC thing to the same extent as everyone else, another couple used to do 'presents from FC' for their son because they didn't want him to be left out at school. Guess it depends what the area you live in is like and how mixed it is - other friends of mine who live in a very monocultural Muslim area don't go anywhere near it.

YANBU.

DD is 21 mo, she hasn't heard about Santa yet and so this Christmas she'll just get her gifts and stocking in the morning and we'll probably say 'oh, look, this is from grandma' etc.

She'll be in the kindergarten by next Christmas and I'm sure she'll have heard about Santa from other kids by then.

I plan to keep it really low-key- might do the whole 'oh, I don't know, people say Santa comes etc' and maybe she'll have stocking as a gift from him.

I do not like how the Christams all revolves around bloody Santa. I also think it is a lie and even though kids enjoy it, I do not like to see their disappointed/ doubting faces when they stop believing and wonder why the parents have lied to them. DS was quite sad.

So I think a good balance would be to be sort of noncommittal, let other kids inform yours about Santa's existence and you might want to include him in Christmas celebrations, but in such a way that it will just add a bit more magic rather than centering it around him iyswim.

I don't think it's disrespectful to allow your children to continue to believe in Santa once they have developed that belief, but I do think it's disrespectful to blatantly lie to children, which is what my parents did. It has always annoyed me the way people automatically lie to children as though it's somehow more acceptable than lying to adults. In my view, unless you're genuinely protecting them from
real harm, lying isn't acceptable at all.

BTW I don't object to non-Christians celebrating Christmas at all. As you say Hopeforthebest almost every culture in the world has some sort of winter festival and it's only natural that if you're in a predominantly Christian country you're going to go along with the main festival there, which is Christmas. What made me very the first year I was in the UK was when a work colleague had a go at me for "claiming" that Christmas was a religious festival at all! She seemed to think I was trying to exclude non-Christians and her view was that the religious side should be ignored by everyone! I couldn't really follow her logic at all. Christmas comes from Christianity, that's where it originated, and I don't see why it makes any difference to her whether I go to mass or not.

The school I teach in is in quite a monocultural area and most of the children I teach are devout Muslims so Christmas is a definite no-no in our school. Eid is next week and we'll be practically empty that day!

Hate to shatter any illusions, but Christmas is actually a pagan festival adopted by the Romans ....

As a Christian, the fact that the story is based in December and there are some quite unrealistic aspects to it (shepherds would not be out in the fields, the census that never was and so on) it matters very little to me - it is the story and meaning of Christmas that makes it so wonderful ...

Christmas isn't a pagan festival, the festival that came before Christmas was. Just to clarify.

My daughter is 9 and clearly doesn't believe in santa any more, but she suspends her disbelief, as we do, so her grandma can have a good time. Grandma's a bit dotty,bless her, and loves Christmas more than ANYTHING else in the world.

So we all play along.

And I tell dd, if she chooses not to believe in santa, that's up to her, but it's more fun when we all go along with the story.

In our house, leaving stuff for santa and putting signs outside the house is all part of the fun. Roll on 24th December. I've got my sleigh bells, my reindeer magic dust and my beer ready for santa.

Without reading all the replies, so accept I might of missed something important, but purely based on denying your DC the thrill of "Santa" whether you believe or not that is "lying to Children" IMHO is YADBU

based on the poor little mite my DD was at Nursery with, Dad with the same views as your own, the family where lovely in all ways & really thought they were doing the best for their DD, but I'll never forget my own DD being very upset for her at the end of Xmas term, all the other Children were excited as can be, non Christians included, but DDs friend had confided in her, that she was sad that Santa went to everyone else house - but hers :(

How awful. I think I would have never forgiven my mum if she had done this to me. I fell out with a friend who told me Father Christmas wasnt real. It was nearly 20 years ago and despite going to school for the next 8 years together we never spoke again!

I do worry about that rockinhippy This issue around lying was the fact that when I was little I asked my parents repeatedly whether Santa was real and they lied and lied, which made me feel rather shit when I found out I was right all along.

It does seem like that little girl has been made to believe that she is missing out whereas if I didn't have the Santa thing I would hope to make it just as special by emphasising that the DCs are getting presents from people they love because they are so important and lovely (not because they've been good).

If you took out the way you see it as lying (which implies sinister reasoning behind it) Writer and instead thought of it as pretending (which I see as innocent playing), would that make you feel differently?

writerofdreams that makes a lot of sense, & in which case, maybe do as we do -

play the Santa "game" (Honestly you to are missing out too if you don't :) ) & when your DC is old enough to ask - don't lie, you can either just say, if you believe, then he IS real for you & all the other DCs who do believe, & if you don't believe then thats fine too, & I'm sure you'll still have Xmas surprises, come Xmas morning.

Got to admit though, considering we've never actually lied out right to our DD,now 8, we are still amazed, that she still very much believes - either that or she's lying to us

agree with agentzigzag on innocent make believe, I grew up surrounded by lots of it, everything was magical, from Dandy-lion clocks being fairies to help escape, to Santa Claus & lots of rituals there in, most came from my favourite Uncle (Teacher) he was & still is the best "make believer" going,

I'm not angry with him for lying to me, but love him more for the wonderful rich imagination he had, & helped me to develop for myself :)