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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think this is actually serious neglect

245 replies

scatteredbraincells · 23/08/2010 08:11

DD (almost 15) has been working all hours under the sun during the summer to save up for a trip she wants to go to (and has made me very proud [boasting emoticon])

A neighbour asked her if she'd babysit for them this week, as their childminder had had an accident and was in hospital (she's gonna be ok). 9 hours a day, 7am to 4pm, takes 3yo to nursery at 7.30, looks after 18month old, picks up 3yo at 3pm, pretty straighforward stuff. The family has been living next door for 6 years, we know them quite a bit, have BBQs together etc.

DD went for her first day today and has just called me very upset and doesn't know what to do. Apparently when she arrived 3yo was all dressed so she started dressing 18mo for the school run, mum was still there and said "oh, don't bother with him". DD assumed mum was gonna be there until she went back, but she got back to find the baby all alone cryin hysterically to the point of throwing up. She called the mum and the mum said "don't worry, it's what we noramlly do, it's only 15 minutes and he's used to it. A bit of cryin never hurt anybody".

Now I don't know what to do. First of all, apart from cruel I think it's also dangerous to leave such a young child alone in the house, 15 or 20 minutes is a very long time. Secondly, I don't want DD involved if something were to happen.

AIBU and where do I go from here?

OP posts:
didgeridoo · 23/08/2010 16:08

Regarding the legality - if money is changing hands (which I figured it was as the girl was saving for a trip) it IS illegal even in the child's own home.

mumbar · 23/08/2010 16:09

have just caught up with this thread again.

With regards to pp the 18 mth dc parents remain responsible for her as scatters dd is under 16. I stand by what I said that I think ops dd will cope as I did at this age and knew all emergency procedures etc. (I also had first aid)

With regards to leaving young child. It is not unheard of - altho in this situation I wouldn't have done it.

Whn I lived abroad I would pop to the flat oposite (literally) when ds asleep with monitor. I have also left him asleep in bed at 4yo, with front door open and neighbour downstairs door open while I nipped over the road (again literally) for milk and bread. The later was an emergency shop as ds fell asleep at 4.30pm and I expected him to wake when he hadn't by 8pm I spoke to neighbour and ran over as we needed bits for breakfast.

I totally agree that you have handled this brilliantly OP and hope all goes well with the mum tonight.

Will you let us know?

diddl · 23/08/2010 16:22

So it seems to be that the 18month old is left 2mornings a week when the 3yr old is taken to nursery?
And perhaps also left again when the 3yr old is collected?

I think that that is terrible tbh.

Also, I do think that the OPs daughter shouldn´t be doing the work as she is acting as a childminder not a babysitter & surely is not legally old enough to be a childminder?

kickassangel · 23/08/2010 17:06

scattered i think it's fair to insist that your dd takes the 18 month with her, as she can say being a different person she isn't happy to leave the young one alone.

personally, i wouldn't have a problem with a 14 yr old, just for a few days, providing emergency care, and the law is very grey on this whole area, as it is an informal arrangement at home, and so short term.

is there any way you could suggest your (by then 15 yr old) can nip in for 15 mins 2 mornings a week to keep an eye on the toddler? does it fit round her getting to school on time, and would she be willing? it seems incredible that the mum doesn't take him - it's not hard to put a child in a car seat/push chair etc. perhaps if you push it a little she'll see how concerned you are, and have a rethink. also the kid will get more active as he gets older, that may make her change her mind. where is her dp during this? is he normally around as well?

loopyloops · 23/08/2010 17:09

BTW a child isn't responsible if something goes wrong with a child in their care if they are under 16, the parents are, and can still be charged. DD is not at fault.

new2cm · 23/08/2010 18:22

I will first declare my interest: I am a newly registered childminder.

As part of my registeration, I have to ensure that I have back-up cover for emergencies - for example, on an occasion that I have the misfortune to need to attend hospital. So when I read, "A neighbour asked her if she'd babysit for them this week, as their childminder had had an accident and was in hospital", I have to ask what back-up cover and arrangements did that childminder have in place? Most registered childminders have a policy for this reason.

I find it almost impossible to believe that the childminder did not provide the parent(s) with contacts to alternative childminders willing, prepared and ready to cover the emergency period, or informed the parent(s) how to obtain emergency childcare cover.

As someone said earlier, all smells fishy.

juuule · 23/08/2010 18:28

new2cm - Perhaps cm backup didn't have places available due to school holidays or maybe the neighbour just felt happy with the op dd babysitting as it was only for 3 days.

new2cm · 23/08/2010 18:28

May I also apologise for my awful spelling in my previous post. It has been a long day. I should have known better than to post when I am exhausted!

I'll leave it at that!

ChippingIn · 23/08/2010 18:42

didgeridoo Mon 23-Aug-10 16:08:07
Regarding the legality - if money is changing hands (which I figured it was as the girl was saving for a trip) it IS illegal even in the child's own home.

Could you please link to the relevant 'law' that makes this illegal.

diddl - why do you keep saying she is acting as a childminder and not a babysitter - that makes no sense!? She is looking after the child in the child's home - babysitter/nanny/mothers help - not childminder... and regardless of what you call her why do you keep insisting that this isn't legal? Please link to a relevant 'law' backing this up.

didgeridoo · 23/08/2010 20:50

ChippingIn - it's at www.directgov.co.uk in the Parents & Children's Rights section.

didgeridoo · 23/08/2010 20:52

Sorry - I would link it if I knew how! I'm almost computer illiterate really.Blush

ChippingIn · 23/08/2010 21:07

Didg - it's easy...

To do a link simply type copy and paste the link in here and then type

It's really really easy. Find the bit you think is relevant, copy the website (highlight the web address, right click & hit copy) and paste it into a new message with and each side of it.

:)

Casserole · 23/08/2010 21:07

How did it go Scattered ? Did you have the chat?

BabyGiraffes · 23/08/2010 21:26

Almost in tears here thinking of an 18 mths old all alone even for 15/20 minutes... Have no more to add regarding legality etc but how can a mother be so cruel and just say they are used to it? It's not that difficult to take a child along, surely.
Sad Sad

Oblomov · 23/08/2010 21:34

Back to the OP's question. Is it neglect ?
"It's neglect. Call the Police and social services." says wahwah, who is a social worker, i believe.

"To everyone who says its neglect, unfortunately its not, there is no law to say a baby/child cannot be left alone unattended for any period of time along as safety measurements are put in place, so the child would not be a endangerment to itself, however I disagree with this law.

I would phone HV, or even tell the mother about you're concerns and pass it on to HV ETC." says Altinkum, who is also a social worker.

The trouble with the definition of neglect is that it takes into account judgement and perspective.

ChippingIn · 23/08/2010 22:03

Baby Giraffes - pull your socks up! It's not that bad. Not something one should do for sure, but it's not crying in your tea terrible. Many parents would leave a tot for that long to have a shower etc.

(not in anyway condoning the mother leaving the child in the house alone)

Scattered - I was hoping you'd have come to let us know how you got on...

mumblecrumble · 23/08/2010 22:34

I couldn;t leave my daughter while I have a shower.

And I wouldn't leave her with anybody who wasn't qualified, older etc.

Waiting for OP to see hwat has happened

teaandcakeplease · 23/08/2010 22:42

I cried actually too. To be fair my DS likes to come in the shower with me now. LOL. He sits down splashing in the water whilst I shower Grin

I used to wait until he had his first nap of the day to run in the shower, still do sometimes Blush All change in Sept as DD starts pre-school full time.

How did it go Scattered?

BabyGiraffes · 23/08/2010 22:50

chippingIn I do wonder why I'm so soppy today.... Hmm Hopefully not hormonal...!
Still I certainly would never leave a baby in the house on his/her own. What if something happens to you and you are not back for hours?
Anyway, hope OP managed to sort it.

didgeridoo · 24/08/2010 00:14

Thanks chippingin. I wouldn't have a clue! Grin

Original poster
scatteredbraincells · 24/08/2010 07:10

Hi all, thank you again, things are far dodgier than I thought and I've had to act on it, things got nasty. Running late atm, will write later.

OP posts:
Altinkum · 24/08/2010 07:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Wallace · 24/08/2010 07:45

That's a shame

tortoiseonthehalfshell · 24/08/2010 07:48

That makes sense, Altikum, and you know what you're talking about far more than I do.

Scattered, I'm really sorry to hear that things got worse rather than better, and I hope you have time to come back and tell us about it when convenient.

Altinkum · 24/08/2010 08:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.