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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think this is actually serious neglect

245 replies

scatteredbraincells · 23/08/2010 08:11

DD (almost 15) has been working all hours under the sun during the summer to save up for a trip she wants to go to (and has made me very proud [boasting emoticon])

A neighbour asked her if she'd babysit for them this week, as their childminder had had an accident and was in hospital (she's gonna be ok). 9 hours a day, 7am to 4pm, takes 3yo to nursery at 7.30, looks after 18month old, picks up 3yo at 3pm, pretty straighforward stuff. The family has been living next door for 6 years, we know them quite a bit, have BBQs together etc.

DD went for her first day today and has just called me very upset and doesn't know what to do. Apparently when she arrived 3yo was all dressed so she started dressing 18mo for the school run, mum was still there and said "oh, don't bother with him". DD assumed mum was gonna be there until she went back, but she got back to find the baby all alone cryin hysterically to the point of throwing up. She called the mum and the mum said "don't worry, it's what we noramlly do, it's only 15 minutes and he's used to it. A bit of cryin never hurt anybody".

Now I don't know what to do. First of all, apart from cruel I think it's also dangerous to leave such a young child alone in the house, 15 or 20 minutes is a very long time. Secondly, I don't want DD involved if something were to happen.

AIBU and where do I go from here?

OP posts:
ThatDamnDog · 23/08/2010 08:29

Better parents? It's hard not to be better when the benchmark is leaving an 18 month old child alone regularly. Really.

loopyloops · 23/08/2010 08:30

14 year old working rules

Totally against the rules.

MumNWLondon · 23/08/2010 08:30

I think she has to say that she is not prepared to work for them under these circumstances.

macdoodle · 23/08/2010 08:31

I'm sorry I dont think a 14yr old is old enough to look after an 18month old for 9 hours?? Thats not babysitting, its childminding, and she is obviously not qualified to do so.
The other issue is equally worrying.

Original poster
scatteredbraincells · 23/08/2010 08:31

"along as safety measurements are put in place, so the child would not be a endangerment to itself"
But who's to say with precision what these safety measurments are? Who can predict an 18mo? Their abilities change so quickly

OP posts:
tortoiseonthehalfshell · 23/08/2010 08:32

"There is no legal age limit for leaving a child on their own, but it is an offence to leave a child alone if it places them at risk. Parents can be prosecuted if they leave a child unsupervised ?in a manner likely to cause unnecessary suffering or injury to health? (Children and Young Person?s Act).

loopyloops · 23/08/2010 08:32

No child shall do any work other than light work. ?Light work? in this case is defined as tasks and working conditions which would not be harmful to the safety, health or development of children, and would not compromise their education. this is not light work

A 14 year old may not work for more than five hours on a Saturday or any other day (other than a Sunday) during the holidays. On a Sunday a 14 year old may only work 2 hours. 9 hours per day

In the holidays a 14 year old may not work for more than 25 hours in any week, or for more than four hours in any day without a rest break of one hour. 45 hours per week, 9 hours per day

susy80 · 23/08/2010 08:32

I would be careful diving into social services without speaking to her,they might also start questioning you about your daughter working there. You should also be sure about the allegations you are making. If for example it turned out that you go to social services based on what your daughter has told you and they go around there to find actually Granny lives in the garden shed and is watching him while they are out it could all backfire. I think you need to try and find out first exactly what is going on or even offer to pop around there and keep an eye on the baby while they go out.

Original poster
scatteredbraincells · 23/08/2010 08:33

Isn't unconsolab;e crying and throwing up unnecessary suffering?

OP posts:
loopyloops · 23/08/2010 08:34

Yes it is, surely. ^^

Could you offer to help in the mornings with little one, or are you at work? (In the interests of keeping friendly.)

grapeandlemon · 23/08/2010 08:35

Omg that is horrific. It is not about what is "illegal" is is about the wellbeing of those children. You need to remove your daughter from the situation and contact ss and inform them of what you know.

Original poster
scatteredbraincells · 23/08/2010 08:35

loopyloops, this is great info, thanks. It's also a good reason to pull dd out of the situation.

She was in a cafe for three weeks and noone mentioned this. Anyway...

OP posts:
Original poster
scatteredbraincells · 23/08/2010 08:36

But if it's not illegal then SS won't ive a monkey's maybe?

OP posts:
Original poster
scatteredbraincells · 23/08/2010 08:38

I'm at work all day, couldn't help out. I feel I'm between a rock and a hard place.

I'd also like to find out for myself EXACTLY what is going on before I do anything. Not that I don't trust DD to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth, but there might be something going on that would escape a 15yo

OP posts:
loopyloops · 23/08/2010 08:38

Oh yes they will. Just because an appropriate age to leave a child unattended isn't specified, quite clearly 18 months is well under that age.
It is dangerous and emotionally traumatic for him.
Having a 14 year old childminding also shows that these parents aren't all that fussed about the welfare of their children.

I think social services would take this very seriously.

Fluffypoms · 23/08/2010 08:39

wow im shocked. Ive 4 dc to get ready in the morning for the school run.
6yo
4yo
3yo
2yo
yes it can be a pain in the arse. but hay ho its the choice i made when i had them.

i think its best that dd doesnt look after the children again.

squigglywig · 23/08/2010 08:40

Of course it is neglect. God only knows what a mobile 18 mo could manage to do in "only 15 mins".

Fair enough, it is complicated with your daughter working there etc. etc. But if you think what she has said is an accurate reflection of what is going on then I don't think you have any choice but to ring someone and pull her out of working there.

By all means speak to the neighbour first if you can. Maybe it was a crappy day, she'd had no sleep, didn't express herself clearly, generally lost her marbles temporarily, is really struggling with the little one. But anyone who really does think it is okay to leave an 18 mo alone in a house needs some sort of input from somewhere.

tortoiseonthehalfshell · 23/08/2010 08:41

Well it's a judgement call, this one, re: the legality. And SS will take it seriously.

I'm really confused as to why the CM has been doing this. If she's OFSTED registered, that's her livelihood at risk. Otherwise, I don't know if there's a legal position re leaving your very young children with an unregistered childminder every day.

I also don't understand why one child goes to nursery and the other one stays at home all day with a CM, why not both of them at one place? But that's irrelevant, really.

ShadeofViolet · 23/08/2010 08:41

I cant believe that either of you are putting your children in this situation tbh.

I would tell your DD to leave - loopy has pointed out the legal hours and your DD is working nearly twice what she should.

Original poster
scatteredbraincells · 23/08/2010 08:41

Wow fluffypoms! I have two teenagers who dress themselves and still find it a pita

OP posts:
loopyloops · 23/08/2010 08:41

Well I think your options are:

  1. Talk to the mother, explain why DD can't work there any more, explain why leaving the child is inappropriate and dangerous. Indicate that if it doesn't change, you will feel obliged to seek advice from SS.
  1. Call SS.
  1. Do nothing, and feel complicit in the neglect of this child.

Personally I'd go for number 1. Yes, you might lose a friend, but the welfare of the children are paramount. What else do they do I wonder, this is only one thing that has come to light.

grapeandlemon · 23/08/2010 08:42

Oh they will give a monkeys be assured about that!

What else could she be doing if she feels this is acceptable? This is a disaster waiting to happen.

Vallhala · 23/08/2010 08:42

I'm just as shocked at the idea of a 14 yo child being allowed - by her parents or by those of her young charges - to care for such young children as I am that one of those in her care was being left at home alone.

The latter isn't necessarily illegal but both are immoral, as is a 14 yo working for 9 hours a day. Neither set of parents come out well in this.

tortoiseonthehalfshell · 23/08/2010 08:43

And I agree with loopy, the fact that they've asked a 14 year old to do this job is a red flag in itself. No aspersion on your daughter, obviously, but I look after a similarly aged child all day (mine) and it's pretty exhausting, can tax anyone's patience, and there's a reason why childminders/nurseries/nannies jump through a lot of regulatory hoops - it's a high risk profession.

missmoopy · 23/08/2010 08:44
  1. Stop daughter working there
  2. Raise serious concerns with neighbour
  3. Phone social services

Obvious neglect.