Support group for those affected by someone else's drinking thread 5

[pointythings]

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/alcohol_support/5473399-support-group-for-those-affected-by-someone-elses-drinking-thread-4?page=5

A new thread, because the old one is full - link to previous thread above.

These threads are a safe place for anyone who has an alcoholic in their lives. You can ask for help, you can vent, you can say whatever you need to without judgement. We will listen and support you.

@Anon20251

My 'current' alcoholic is my DH, from whom I'm currently separated.

But my 1st alcoholic was my brother. At his worst he drank at least a 'handle' of straight vodka a day, that's 1.75L. He often coupled that with a bottle or two of red wine. He has been an alcoholic for over 40 years now, but as of today he's been sober for 11 of those 40 years.

I know this will be painful to hear, but there is nothing you can do to help her. She has to do the hard work herself. I supported (and to my sorrow, enabled) my brother time after time after time but it wasn't until I completely stepped away and said "You are on your own, don't call me when you're drinking" that he really hit bottom and pulled himself up and got sober. It was a hard and painful journey for him, and one I couldn't share. He went in-patient for detox and rehab then used an organization called Life Ring as AA didn't fit his needs.

As far as medications, they only work if the alcoholic takes them. And they will stop taking them if they want to drink. So your DSis' decision to stop taking her meds was a deliberate one.

So, right now the best thing you can do for your sister is get help for yourself. I went to a counselor to help me cope with my decision to cut contact with my DB when he was drinking. You can also look into AlAnon and/or SMART Recovery Friends & Family groups for support.

I wish you the best of luck. Be strong.

Thanks to you all for the advice. I had a talk with him last night about the moving etc. I think he wants to put it all behind him. Our very nice neighbours were very aware of everything and another set of locals took him home when he had fallen one time. So he’s ashamed and embarrassed. I just said it’s too soon and I’m not going to be bulldozed into anything. In the past he always drove things forward so I think some of it is reverting to type but I said I’m not prepared to put myself through all that stress and when he’s been sober for a yesr ( if that happens) I’ll reconsider.
thanks as always for all your advice and support.
glad that holidays are either going well or being planned I think you all deserve the best time you can have!!to the poster with the sister that sounds really hard. In my case we did the back and forth to local alcohol services but nothing really improved until inpatients and rehab. I know that’s not always accessible but people on here will have better advice.

How strange both the same date - mine is Feb 23 I kicked him out

true @AcrossthePond55. You still love your dh

I def don’t love mine. He’s killed all my love since splitting with drinking and lies

tho I don’t wish him any ill harm and sadly he will prob die alone and maybe not be found for 2/3 days - possibly by me on Sunday as no one else really goes round there - and yes also seem those programmes 🙀😢

how long have you been apart ? Im over 2yrs

@wouldratgerbeunknown I’m sure dh would like to move so no one knows him as a drinker. But tough. 6mths is seriously nothing

I’m sure the neighbours are aware hee not drinking and hopefully proud of him and supportive to you

@Anon20251to be blunt your sister stopped taking the tablets that can help cravings - she doesn’t want to really stop drinking or she would be back on those tablets

some suggest aa and to get a sponsor who will support her - as long as sober

look after yourself

you can’t make them sober and stop drinking sadly - they have to want to and put in the hard work

@Penguinsandspaniels

how long have you been apart ? Im over 2yrs

It will be a year on 16 July. Feels like tis but a fleeting moment in a 38 year marriage.

Ah. Hence you still feel love and sympathy

or maybe I’m a heartless bitch 😉

@wouldratgerbeunknown I would be very wary of your husband's desire to move. Alcoholics love to run away. It's a symptom of their alcoholism. If your husband is really serious about living a sober life, he needs to address everything he has left behind, and that includes his relationship with his neighbours, especially if you've previously got on well.

And really, if he is open and honest with them, the likelihood is that they will be supportive of his genuine work to change. If he can't do that, it's a red flag.

@Anon20251 I can't add anything to what @AcrossthePond55 has said - I'd have said exactly the same things to you. You must look after yourself first. Your sister's addiction is not your problem to fix.

Anon20251
I'm so sorry you are going through this with your sister. You love her and are desperate to help anyway you can.
But I'm so sorry to repeat what others have said.
There really isn't anything you can do to help her choose Life over alcohol, she HAS to make that choice herself.

I'm also extremely dubious over her claims to want to stop drinking - by stopping taking the medication she shows that booze is her choice first and only.

Drinking from the moment she wakes is about as bad as it can get.

In truth you could help her by telling her that you can't help her anymore, you won't speak if she's had a drink, you won't see her while she's still drinking.

Get all the support you can for yourself to deal with YOUR pain, stick around here to vent and rage, we've all been where you are.

Thanks everyone, I needed to hear what you’ve all said. I spoke to her earlier, she didn’t do any work today - she works remotely so it’s easy for her to duck out. She spent the day drinking judging by how she sounded on the phone. I looked up Al Anon, and there was a local meeting tonight, so I bit the bullet and went along. It was very eye opening…. I have a lot to think about, I want to support her, I don’t want to give up on her, but I don’t want to enable her or act as a safety blanket. I truly believe she is crying out for help, but at the same time doesn’t know how to / can’t break the cycle. I love her dearly, I know I can’t fix her and I don’t think she’s going to listen to or act on any advice I give her.

Nah. Everyone has their limits and you reached yours. The day may come when I reach mine. Obvs I haven't yet and I can't really picture it happening, but I have mentally prepared myself for the possibility.

@Anon20251

I have a lot to think about, I want to support her, I don’t want to give up on her, but I don’t want to enable her or act as a safety blanket.

Walking away/refusing to enable is not giving up on them. I never gave up on my brother. But I had to content myself with prayer and educating myself. In his (albeit brief) times of sobriety I would speak to him about general things, but not about his drinking. I refused to engage in that.

I truly believe she is crying out for help, but at the same time doesn’t know how to / can’t break the cycle.

You know, there isn't an alcoholic in the civilized world that doesn't know about AA and 'AA meetings'. They may not know more than that they exist but they know it's a resource any alcoholic can use. So she knows that there is support out there but she has to make the effort to go and listen. AA isn't for everyone, maybe it won't be for her, but at least it's a start to the journey. And there are other organizations for alcoholics if AA doesn't suit her.

I'm glad you went to AlAnon. They were really helpful to me. I learnt a lot about alcoholism in general and my decisions and actions were truly validated by them. Like this thread, it's so helpful to have others who can say "I've been (or I am) where you are".

So i had to stay away from the thread for a few days because if i'd allowed myself to think about how hard it has been, or spoken about how sad i was i felt like i would just break into a million pieces. I've forced myself to fill any spare moment with practical tasks, mainly away from the house & it got me through. Now i look at him & all i can see is self pity & excuses, and the lack of respect that means he thinks he can win me over, or justifies turning nasty when he can't.

We were trying to have a relatively sensible conversation about his next steps last night, but as soon as anything that requires commitment, like rehab comes up the shutters in his brain come down. I feel sad for him, because if he was prepared to seek help i would support him, albeit from separate homes for my sanity, but i suspect he never will. Divorce doesn't seem quite so bleak now though, i've had glimpses of how it could be for me on the other side & i like what i see! Now just to keep this positivity for the next 20 weeks!

I think also having a child makes a difference. She deserves better. To feel happy and safe. Which she does now

plus sounds like you dh isn’t malicious and lying where ex lies about anything and everything but more about drinking which just pisses me /his family off

This @Anon20251

you can’t make someone sober. I wish I could

Well done. It’s the 20w that are hard as can’t do anything in that time and why my divorce took 9mths

would be 4 if didn’t have this stupid wait !!

you know you have done the right thing as sounds like your dh isn’t ready to admit /gain extra help

come and cry on this thread. Well rant /your feelings. I have many a time

it is sad divorcing - we had been apart over a year so further along than you. I would have divorced earlier but he said he was going to (free as on uc) but didn’t and kept dangling so in the end I did even tho cost me it was worth it

still paying it off my credit card but so worth it to be rid of him

@Ebananascroogey

We were trying to have a relatively sensible conversation about his next steps last night, but as soon as anything that requires commitment, like rehab comes up the shutters in his brain come down.

Remember that the shutters coming down is a deliberate act, not an involuntary response.

I feel sad for him, because if he was prepared to seek help i would support him, albeit from separate homes for my sanity, but i suspect he never will.

It's taken me a year to really accept that DH will never stop drinking. But except for a few moments here and there, I know that's the reality. I've actually started deleting or moving to hidden files the things regarding a 'future together' from my laptop. Mostly about future RV trips we've wanted to take and the lists I've made on packing for them. It hurt my heart so much, but the painful reminders that they will never happen hurt me more. The things and trips from our past don't upset me. Those were great times and I still cherish them. It's the future ones that break my heart.

Divorce doesn't seem quite so bleak now though, i've had glimpses of how it could be for me on the other side & i like what i see!

It is good on the other side. It is peace and calm. It is self-determination. It is a pink and black bathroom he never would have countenanced. It is making decisions and choices without having to consider another person. In my case, it is more time for and an even closer relationship with my sons.

Now just to keep this positivity for the next 20 weeks!

I filed for the legal separation 2 months after I left. It became final 7 months later. There is power and peace in knowing that I am financially secure and separate and completely immune from that security ever being 'touched' by anything he does. Tomorrow I finalize my estate planning so that my sons will inherit everything I own, including my half of the marital home should I die before it is sold.

Whilst in the middle of it all I felt like it was dragging on and would never be finalized. Now that it has been it seems like it took no time at all. You'll probably feel the same.

I agree. If my sons were young children I think I'd be so much more angry for them than I ever have been for myself. Since they're adults and have seen the truth for longer than I have, I don't feel I have to protect or 'fight for' them. I do occasionally feel insulted as in "How stupid do you think I am?" but then I realize it doesn't matter. If I'm 'stupid', at least I'm not a drunk.

No, as a rule DH isn't malicious. His lies nowadays are the lies of a child with chocolate smeared on its face trying to get out of trouble for getting into the candy. I'm at the point where his lies about drinking don't really affect me. Other lies are just stupid, attention seeking lies; moving a woman in, driving off with the caravan and leaving the house empty. Sure, you just do that. 🙄

He did have quite a malicious period early on though, mostly lying about destroying things I'd left in the house. He still does occasionally do that, but now I know better than to believe him. Plus, I've gotten 90% of my precious things out and have mentally said goodbye to the things that remain.

DH is coming up to 5 weeks sober. I can see he's really making an effort eg doing much more round the house but it's just irritating me.

@Thefellowship don't feel guilty about how you feel. There is such a thing as 'too little, too late'. How many times did you try to address the issues in your marriage only to be dismissed?

I know exactly what you mean @Ebananascroogey. I left Ex a couple of months after he relapsed a third time. It wasn’t because he relapsed, although that time did really break me because it was the longest he managed after rehab (2 months ish, which sounds so pathetic written down). It was because the shutters came down and he just refused to go back into rehab even though that was his relapse prevention plan in the outpatient place he was going to - straight back into rehab if he couldn’t make more than 24 hours sober. It was because vile and cruel Ex came back - blaming me, blaming his family, blaming is first wife, blaming his neurodivergence and his anxiety and his childhood trauma etc. It was the return of the most special addict in the whole world for whom nothing works (rehab, AA, Smart etc) because he is so uniquely afflicted. I just couldn’t bear it. I couldn’t live with the denial and the excuses any more. If he had been trying and relapsing again, that is one thing, but avoidance and blame I just couldn’t do again. It’s a year now and nothing changed. I’m glad I saved myself that whole year of torment and abuse.

@pointythings Probably every 1-2 years for 25 years. It is definitely too little too late.

I know how that feels. My timeline was shorter, but I started talking about things with my husband in 2012 when I realised there was a real problem. After that it was probably twice a year when there was a flashpoint. We reached an uneasy truce in 2015 when I more or less gave up and when he promised he at least wouldn't drink in secret. Of course I knew he was breaking that promise and had been from day one, but I stuck my head in the sand. Until the day I accidentally kicked his backpack in the corridor and heard the clink - that was 5 days before my oldest's Year 11 prom. That was my rock bottom moment and the one that kicked off the ultimatum I gave him, and the rest is history.

The longest he was sober, including the time he was in rehab, was 8 weeks. Not anywhere near enough.

Too little too late

and 5w is still bugger all

@Penguinsandspaniels you're right the 20 weeks are going to be a nightmare. He got served today & already i can feel a shift in the atmosphere despite the fact he knew it was coming. He won't move out & i can't (on the solicitors advice), so all i can do is pray that he's not too awkward when it comes to dividing up the finances.

@AcrossthePond55 you are so right, it's all the future things that we won't get to do that breaks my heart, even though i know deep down that they would always be tinged with the fear of his drinking.

@Nogoodusername that literally sounds exactly like the conversation we had last night, they could be the same person!

So the divorce papers have been served & already he's changed his whole attitude. He knew they were coming so it's not that out of the blue, but his commitment to a drink down & seeking help has lessened within seconds. It's like he thought he could roll me over again & get his own way & this is maybe showing him he can't. It just makes me realise how much control he's had over me for so long. It's hard. I've felt relatively calm the last few days, but now i just feel sick with anxiety. It's made me realise how much of my life was driven by that feeling & how i absolutely can't continue to live like this going forward.

@Ebananascroogey sorry it’s being stressful already - I was lucky as my house and kicked him out and he didn’t try and fight it

so wasn’t living with him when got served but we were talking kinda of as obv Have dd

he originally said he wasn’t signing it and got all shitty. But he did sign in 2w I think it was as all his family basically told him to and stop delaying it

deep breaths and ignore any deliberate baiting

if house is going to be sold. Probably as joint then start tidying and organising so can be put on the market asap

also means in the 20w hopefully will sell and then can have an idea for financials

I went for clean break as he has nothing and house was mine and he paid nothing. He did all the bluffing of gonna take you for everything but in the end he got nothing