Support group for those affected by someone else's drinking thread 5

[pointythings]

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/alcohol_support/5473399-support-group-for-those-affected-by-someone-elses-drinking-thread-4?page=5

A new thread, because the old one is full - link to previous thread above.

These threads are a safe place for anyone who has an alcoholic in their lives. You can ask for help, you can vent, you can say whatever you need to without judgement. We will listen and support you.

@Littlewhitedaisy

Yet there are still times when I see the man underneath, the glimpses of when he is still the person I love. That’s why this is so hard, because while I know the here and now, and especially the girls are why I’m doing this, I still have the feeling of “maybe he’ll get better, what if I actually am over reacting and blowing up everything?”

Oh Lord, yes! 10 months after leaving I still see those flashes of 'who he was' and it can (at times) shatter me all over again. But most times I realize that he is never going to stop drinking and that any hope I have remaining is now a dim and distant flicker. Maybe not gone completely, but certainly too dim to light my way and too distant to keep me warm.

I think part of what makes it so hard for you is that you're still there. That hope burned bright before I left. It had to, otherwise life would have been intolerable. But once I left and was away from the daily chaos and in a place of peace, that was when I was able to start accepting that he wasn't going to change. And TBH even if he did now (a miracle at this point) I'm not sure it would make a difference. There's been too much water under the bridge, too much trust has been lost.

But you have much more to think about than I did, my situation was pretty simple. I didn't have young children to consider and I didn't depend on him at all financially. And I had a ready-made place at DS1's to go to lick my wounds and make plans. But although your situation is more complicated, I do urge you to try and make a plan to leave. Having a plan doesn't mean you will execute it. Simply having one can bring a measure of peace.

@Littlewhitedaisy I get you. When my husband was in day rehab and for 2 weeks after, it felt like getting him back. He was relaxed, fun, lovely to our teens. He was himself again.

Then he drank again and lied about it, and that was the end.

It has to be the end, if it isn’t I’ll lose my daughter and squander all the support I have had, and live to regret it. I’ve already done all the fight in and supporting that I can, there’s nothing left to give. There have been good times, over 30 years of course there will have been, but the future matters now and he won’t change long term.
It’s just a question of how to proceed. He’s very good at being the victim and turning things back on me, elements of control and psychological games. So, I want to keep things on track for how I want it to play out, which I know sounds manipulative and controlling of me, but if I don’t he will be and he’s better at it than me.
It’s just complicated. But I will get there, and things will be better. I just need to work out the right steps.

Grey rock.

Smile and nod, keep an emotional detachment, protect your finances (squirrel away some funds that he doesn't even know about), save your breath.

Look after your DD and yourself, do the bare minimum for him.

If he gets nasty just leave the room/house.
If he gets aggressive phone the Police.
If he drives after drinking phone the Police.

Good luck

@Littlewhitedaisy

He’s very good at being the victim and turning things back on me, elements of control and psychological games. So, I want to keep things on track for how I want it to play out, which I know sounds manipulative and controlling of me, but if I don’t he will be and he’s better at it than me.

My advice is to keep quiet, see a solicitor and plan, plan, plan!

My DH could out-argue a Supreme Court Justice! He'd get my head spinning with his counter-arguments and 'points' until I didn't know if I was coming or going. I always knew there was something wrong with what he was saying, but I could never put my finger on just what it was! Plus he is really good at DARVO and I am was very susceptible to that.

So, I went quiet. I stopped arguing or debating. I walked away and isolated myself upstairs. And although at that point in time I was still in the 'I can carve my own life out' stage the first thing I did at that point was to take a hard look at finances and make myself a tentative 'budget' for life on my own. I looked at rentals in my area, I priced car & rental insurance premiums and looked at estimated utility costs in my desired areas. I looked at savings and investments and determined my 'share'. So I knew that I could afford to live on my own 'should it be necessary'. I was on the verge of seeing an attorney to get some questions answered when it DID become necessary for my sanity and I was escorted out by the local sheriff.

My sons both insisted soon afterwards that I consult an attorney so I knew my options. I found out what assets were legally my sole property and what was community property. What I could and could not move or remove from the house. And to separate finances before I filed anything. I discussed divorce vs legal separation to decide which was best for me. And about a month later (with finances already separated as much as possible) I filed for legal separation when his verbal abuse and numerous threats to destroy or give away my personal property escalated to the point of him taking some my late mother's and grandmother's precious glassware out to the yard and shooting them to pieces with a rifle.

@Littlewhitedaisy I don't know a lot about legal matters, but have you looked into requesting a long term deferred sale of your house or unequal division of assets because of your child's needs?

Ex’s brief sober periods after rehab were so painful for seeing who he used to be and beginning to hope, and then having it dashed. I didn’t ever get very long - 3 weeks the first time, not even a day the second, couple of days the third. The fourth broke me as he managed nearly 8 weeks and I got used to ‘us’ again. He’d be so cruel when he relapsed as well, all the rage and frustration I guess he felt at himself diverted onto me.

Relapse four was my final straw. His relapse plan had been to immediately return to rehab to stop the spiral and he wouldn’t do it. Aaaaaall the excuses. I begged and negotiated and reasoned for three months before I walked away for good. He was vile in that time too. Completely reached rock bottom of his behaviour towards me. I didn’t realise how much stress I was under until I left.

he’s done a short detox since, think he lasted about a week, but basically a full year of addiction and even back on the drug use. He’s unrecognisable personality wise. Definitely brain damaged now

It’s shocking how booze can destroy a brain

Sooooo this is outing if anyone knows me on here as told all my friends and family

im divorced !!! Final conditional order came today - 6w and 2 day after judge ruled (normal)

took 9mths in total and thats without ex quibbling. He agreed to all via clean break (house mine) and full custody of dd

@Penguinsandspaniels

I don't know if 'Congratulations' is exactly the right word to use in our situation(s), so I will say "I'm glad for you that it's over, well done, and here's to bright tomorrows".

Even though mine was a legal separation and yours a divorce, it's quite a relief to have the legalities done and to know that no matter what they may do, financially you are 'safe'.

Congratulations!!!!!

Bloody well done, both in deciding to get out and then in making it happen. You're a bloody legend.

Congrats @Penguinsandspaniels!! I’m so glad it’s all done and you have one less thing on the mental load list.
You are a fabulous role model for your DD xx

It’s def weird. It is congrats in some ways as I’ve had to deal with with it all and pay for it all lol - to get this far (and still paying as on my credit card)

its sad as you fall in love and have hope and dreams and that marriage will last forever but equally some things you can’t change

but I’m also proud that I grew the strength and courage to say no more. And I’ve made sure that dd will have a happy secure childhood.

she is everything to me and kids should have two parents who they can love and know they can depend upon - sadly in our cases it come down to us doing it alone and being one

@Penguinsandspaniels

It is a mix of emotions, isn't it? I think when I received the final papers on the separation my main emotion was just a sort of numbness. Not a shocked or stunned numbness, more like I had so many emotions that the only thing my brain could do was go numb. I felt relief that financially I was protected, stress on the actions (now 90% completed) I had to take to effectuate the division of finances & community property, happiness that the legalities were over, and sadness that it had come to this.

I think when a marriage ends, just about all emotions are 'valid' regardless of the reason for the divorce.

As far as the cost for my separation, the retainer I paid covered just about the whole thing, I only had to pony up an additional $50.00 on the final bill. Frankly, it would have cost a lot more if he had bothered to respond and we had to haggle about things. There may be additional costs at some point when it comes to selling the house if he decides to be a jerk about it, but I'm content to let that ride for a bit.

You have been through so much and you have triumphed. I have a good feeling that you and DD will be just fine!

@Penguinsandspaniels it is a milestone, and one I am sure you are glad to have reached. Now it is time to relax and enjoy your daughter
I sometimes think that everyone who gets married should talk to someone who has been divorced to understand how complicated and painful it can be to end a marriage, in order to appreciate the strength of the contract they are entering into.

@Penguinsandspaniels congratulations on having the strength and fortitude to see it through . Even though you still have ties to him because he’s your child’s father you have given her such a strong message about what not to tolerate. Sad to end a marriage but not your choice ultimately

I sometimes think that everyone who gets married should talk to someone who has been divorced to understand how complicated and painful it can be to end a marriage

Honestly, I think there should be a class taught on it either at high school or university level. It could be part of a 'domestic financial management' course.

Back when the earth was cooling, we had 'marriage and family' and a 'bookkeeping' class. The first was pretty useless since this was based on 'pre-feminist' curricula* although it did teach contraception. It touched on divorce rates (rather low back then) but more as a 'failure rate' rather than a 'leave an unhappy marriage' rate. The second was really useful. We were taught to balance a checkbook, determine a budget, and 'single entry' bookkeeping amongst other things. What a learnt in that class still stands me in good stead today, despite online banking and excel.

*our teacher was a feminist so she often presented lessons according to what she called the 'mandated curricula' but with a small moue and some eyerolls. We loved her.

My feeling is that there should be a mandatory meeting with an ex-spouse IF one's intended has been divorced twice or more. Not that multiple divorces necessarily means that one's intended is a shit, they may just have bad judgement. But I can think of more occasions where it's later been shown as a red flag than just 'bad judgement'.

I had the chance to talk with my husband’s ex wife (who had of course been identified as ‘crazy’). It was like looking in a mirror as we shared stories. She did say she had thought about contacting me, but concluded I probably would not have listened to her. I have no idea what I would have done if she had. However it is what it was and having spoken to her after his funeral I at least have absolute confirmation that it wasn’t me!

Ex’s first wife was apparently coercive and controlling and definitely did not leave him because of drug and alcohol abuse. No, he drank and took drugs for relief from his unhappy marriage. Still cannot believe that I fell for it…

I apologise to that woman all the time in my head. I hope one day she’ll let me apologise to her in person.

I didn't find out what mine said about me until after his death when we found his notes from the rehab. There were some reflection sheets in which he got feedback from other people who were there with him, and it was very clear - he blamed me for his drinking, and they weren't buying the bullshit. It was nevertheless distressing because he was almost at the end of treatment when those sheets were written, and it told me that he never took rehab seriously at all.

DDs took the notes away from me and sorted getting them shredded at school. I was grateful.

@Penguinsandspaniels , I’m thinking of you and wishing you a happy and peaceful future 💐
Dh has taken a (small) bag and left. I think he’ll be back as he won’t have enough stuff and we will need to sort a lot out. He did sleep at his dads empty house the other night, there’s no furniture and so on, the follow day he spent drinking his way back in my direction and was quite agressive and shouty when he got in. He either didn’t remember or chose not to the nt t day. Dd was in tears, resulting in more talking and going around the houses yesterday and today. He thinks I’m making things up, that his behaviour is ok, and that I’m breaking our family up, that’s my choice and refuses to see that it’s his behaviour, not my response that’s the problem, even when I point out that he is constantly choosing pub time, football and alcohol ahead of his job, me , and children.
He did get in my head tonight though and I felt heartbroken for DD when she was sobbing as he left. Even though I know it’s the right thing is the fear of regret and the self doubt normal? The horror that I’m making it worse than it is, the what if’s, are they normal and do they go away? I suddenly feel very old and lonely and un chosen , like my life is ruined if I stay and ruined if I go. The only certainty is that it’s right for my children and that gives me strength.

Oh @Littlewhitedaisy I am so sorry he is making this so very hard for you. All I can say is that you are absolutely doing the right thing in making a move to separate yourself from him. He will only get worse - if they don't acknowledge they have a drink problem, that is what happens. Grit your teeth, keep fighting your way through it. Peace and happiness are there at the other end of it, however hard it is right now. And we are all here for you.

If you ever need a 1:1, I am open to DM and I will give you my mobile if you need regular support via WhatsApp. This is something I do for people in my RL support group, I don't see why it shouldn't include you.

I know both of of ex’s and mums to his 3 other adult kids. Both are lovely ladies. One hates his guts and I can see where she is coming from ha ha

other he cheated on twice and drank too much.

sorry you had to read those @pointythings🌸

thanks @Littlewhitedaisy - this will be you one day / where I am

you will be happier. I am and dd is

self doubt is very normal esp when they lie so convincing

and I did it all for dd. Just as you are for your dc

and I know he still buys vodka. Yet Denys it and says not drinking. Haven’t touched for weeks etc - so I keep saying to myself. I’ve done the right thing

it’s fine to have doubts as we did love them and no one wants to get divorced and upheaval of life esp with young kids

but i promise you that your life won’t be ruined. It will only get better 🌸🌸

@Littlewhitedaisy

Even though I know it’s the right thing is the fear of regret and the self doubt normal?

Yes, it's absolutely normal. Because the 'known' always feels safer than the 'unknown', even when the known is horrible. And I think above all our brains are wired to keep us 'safe'.

I think that's why it takes such courage to make that final step into freedom. Because we aren't only fighting the love we feel (or used to feel) we're fighting our own instincts to stay where our subconscious is telling us is safe. But our conscious mind is telling us to get the hell out, that happiness is just a short struggle and possibly a bit of pain away.

You're doing the right thing. And it's pretty amazing how soon the 'Am I doing the right thing?' fear melts away once you are free.