Support group for those affected by someone else's drinking thread 5

[pointythings]

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/alcohol_support/5473399-support-group-for-those-affected-by-someone-elses-drinking-thread-4?page=5

A new thread, because the old one is full - link to previous thread above.

These threads are a safe place for anyone who has an alcoholic in their lives. You can ask for help, you can vent, you can say whatever you need to without judgement. We will listen and support you.

@wouldratgerbeunknown well I def won’t be getting married for a 3rd time

this divorce has cost me enough and would never risk losing /sharing my daughters home if I got married again

unless of course he’s richer then me 😘

interesting that May marry another alcoholic

@AcrossthePond55 i think you have a good point about your kids being old enough to say. Don’t want ro see /support dad as dh older sons have done this - and I don’t blame them

think most of our men always liked a drink but that it was under control and wasn’t nasty with it

till they drank more and then not nice

like with @pointythings dh when drunk would shout and lose his temper over nothing with dd who was then 4/5/6 and tbh is such a sweetie. She isn’t a bad kid ever

I would like to meet someone. I don’t want to be on my own for maybe another 40yrs if live to be 90 but I don’t think I would ever live with them while dd is little

I read it so often on mn and blended families and how the kids are unhappy

@Penguinsandspaniels

i think you have a good point about your kids being old enough to say. Don’t want ro see /support dad as dh older sons have done this - and I don’t blame them

I don't blame your DH's sons either. And I will tell you it is a peaceful feeling when that decision (see/not see) is completely out of one's hands. It must be hard to have to make that judgement when a child is too young to understand why they 'shouldn't see dad today' but old enough be vocal about wanting to see them. Or having to mediate between a child who doesn't want to see their parent, yet the parent insists on it and has court orders.

think most of our men always liked a drink but that it was under control and wasn’t nasty with it

I agree. And I think that's what makes it so hard for us. Because we knew the 'good man' who could have 'a few', it was harder to break away from the 'bad man' who couldn't stop. We kept expecting them to revert to the men we knew and loved.

well I def won’t be getting married for a 3rd time

I don't blame you for wanting to meet someone. You're younger than I am and probably would have more patience to find a man, definitely you have more time to look for the right one! But I agree with not marrying and keeping all your finances to yourself.

Luckily, should I become absolutely insane and lose all reason, pre-nups are legally binding here lol. But for me it's not just finances, that's easy enough to 'secure'. It's having to adjust my ways to another man's ways. A man could be a total sweetheart but they'd still have 'ways'. I'm too old and set in my own ways for that. Maybe if a rich teetotal man dropped into my life and wanted to be my 'companion' I'd consider 'together apart'. But I can't see even a sweetheart putting up with "Hey, you need to go home now. I'm done 'companioning' with you for today. I'll call you when I need company again" haha.

Welcome @Shabang21 and @AlanisMorningShed. I've been catching up on the posts and it is striking how all our stories overlap. I had so many humiliating incidents - my DS's friend's mother marching into our garden to remove her child, who'd phoned home to say my DH was 'acting weird', a neighbour calling to say my Dh was asleep in her garden, and many more. Drink driving was an issue too. He swore on the children's lives he'd never drink and drive with them in the car. He was lying.
Once the alcoholic has left, and we don't need to tiptoe around our own homes, we may not be feeling like doing cartwheels right away (or ever) but happiness and contentment begin to seep back into our lives.

As @CharlotteByrde said I’m def happier without dh. As is dd

So much of all of this fits with me too. I know I’m new here, but it’s so familiar it’s like I’ve written it all myself.
I’ve been reading but not posting as there’s been a lot going on. Dd has been very unwell in hospital for almost 2 weeks, going in as an emergency.
I thought it was the perfect time for dh to step up and prove he could put out other daughters first, and be a good dad. He didn’t. I’m sorry to say he left eldest dd to it, cooking, shopping, school runs, bedtime routine, the lot, looking after her 10 y old sister when she should have been revising for A levels. He would be home a bit, sleep it off then go out again. When he eventually came in he would be disturbing them by clattering around and going In their bedroom to wake them up to tell them to go to sleep, and to pick an argument with eldest dd. This went on for 2 days and nights, when it became apparent that dd was going to be in hospital a while, quite seriously unwell, I made plans for them to go to stay with my sister , who picked them up and has been amazing. While the house was empty dh has done nothing at all. No household chores, no diy, no cooking, gardening, nothing. I know he stayed in bed til late morning, then at some variable times trotted off to the pub, and brought wine home, living off corn flakes. I didn’t remind him when dd was being discharged, just took us both home, to find the kitchen and bathroom dirty, dirty dishes and rubbish in a bag, no where clean enough to bring a poorly child home to and no food in to speak of. I settled her in and got busy with washing and cleaning, which has took me 2 days. On the day we got back after a couple of hours dh staggered in trying to look sober, denied drinking and after a few minutes was harassing me about where he stood with me, would I massage his shoulders (!), kept forgetting dd was home, making up stories about himself and illness. My other 2 dds are still with my sister, and my oldest has told him she doesn’t want to see him or return home while he’s here because she’s so disgusted by his choices and how he treated them. He called her a poisonous liar for challenging him.
We have had conversations and discussions and fallouts till I’m blue in the face. I’ve told him he needs to leave because the children need to be in their home and I can’t go because of dd’s disabilities.
He can’t or won’t see it, saying he wants to put it right and I won’t let him, that he doesn’t drink too much, he hasn’t hurt anyone, he hasn’t done anything so wrong, that dd us talking rubbish and someone is in her head about it, that he doesn’t want to move out , won’t be forced, we will have to get divorced and live in the same house, that all this is tipping him over the edge mentally.
I had some love and compassion left but not now. How could he do this and treat his children like this and still refuse to go or do anything? I can’t leave , I can’t get rid of him, and I absolutely will not lose my daughter because of him, and right this minute I hate him and wish he’d just die in his sleep or something.
😤😖
I just want him out of our lives for good now, I’m so sick of him.

@Littlewhitedaisy that must have been so hard for you. I'm so sorry he let you and your DC down so badly.

But he has now thrown it in your face that alcohol will always come first for him. He will never be there to step up for you and the kids. I hope this has given you the strength to start moving towards a split - however hard it will be, it will in the end be better than where you are now.

And the one thing about these threads and about the way all our stories are so similar is that it proves once and for all that none of us are alone.

I’ve been to see a solicitor already, and I k know he won’t ever change long term. He can’t even change in the short term. I’m getting my thoughts around it away from sadness and towards anger that he’s fine about his mess and doesn’t see what he’s done. It’s dd I feel sorry for, I just want them home and him gone. He’s actually just come in, drunk, muttering himself now and going to sleep. All I felt was disgust and disappointment that he’s come back

@Littlewhitedaisy I really feel for you. You must be so angry and disappointed in him. I wish it was possible to wave a wand and have him vanish from your home. But he won't go quietly, and it may be that you'll have to be the ones to go if you want to keep your family together. However hard that seems, your current situation can't continue, can it? He's neither husband nor parent and the language he is using about/to this children is so damaging.

We were all new once @Littlewhitedaisy / sorry to hear about dd. So while she was poorly and you /her in hospital - dh was still pissing it up the wall ?

he’s doing the usual denial / then it’s not so bad. I don’t drink much

I know it’s an addiction and an illness but frankly they are adults and when their kids need them , and you can’t depend on them - you know it’s over

so yes if that’s means divorcee etc then so be it !

you will be able to get rid of him but prob only by selling the home

they don’t sadly seem to see what destruction they cause by their behaviour

and even when not together - dh still can’t see why we aren’t together and what’s he’s done

@Littlewhitedaisy

Oh, I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this. Did you speak to the solicitor about the fact that you need to be in the house due to your DD's disabilities and whether there is a way to force him out due to his drunken behaviour being detrimental to her (and other DDs)? Could SS do anything to get him out? If those are dead ends, then do at least try to contemplate how you and DDs could leave safely and with your DD's disability in mind. Is there an organization for parents of disabled children who might be able to help or advise?

@CharlotteByrde

You mentioned contentment upthread. I think of all the positive emotions that one feels after one separates from an alcoholic/addict the emotion of 'contentment' is really the most powerful. AI defined it as "a state of peaceful satisfaction and mental ease, characterized by acceptance of one's current circumstances and a sense of having enough. It is the quiet, stable counterpart to more fleeting and intense experiences of happiness".

Knowing that you are in now your rightful place in the world. That you may have trials and tribulations, but you are still where you belong. How wonderful is that?

yet today. A week later from my 16/5 6pm post - he was like a different man

walking ok. He lives in a flat and I had to help him to the bathroom. Today he climbed my stairs to go to the loo

Ate lunch at mine with older dd as they came over with her kids (so ex grandkids) chatty and it’s always easier /nicer to see ex with other people

how can a week make such a diff ? How can booze make such a difference ?

@Penguinsandspaniels

how can a week make such a diff ? How can booze make such a difference?

Pretty amazing, isn't it? DH goes from practically incoherent and pretty much no recall of even what was discussed a few moments before when he's drinking to coherent speech and thought and a 'pretty good' memory when he's sober. Although drunk or sober, he denies the state the house is in. I wish I knew a neurobiologist who could explain it to me in 'ELI5' language.

DH has been sober now for 5 days. The upside is that it's possible to have a rational conversation with him. The downside is that he asks questions I don't want to answer and wants promises I don't want to give about when I'm 'coming home'. I'm defo not ready to have that conversation with him.

All we can do is take it day by day and if they are sober today we can relax a bit. But we can't depend on that sobriety for tomorrow.

I agree. My dh is sober this morning and insisted we can make things right, that he hasnt hurt anyone, and is abstinent apart from a couple of pints. 😳
Dd is my responsibility and I should be putting it right with her so she comes home. He just keeps saying I’m just trying to push him out of the door and his home, because I’m not happy, but no connection to his choices. He’s gone to stretch his legs by walking to the pub.Totally ignoring that he has been in hospital on thiamine and Librium, only with the illness he was admitted with.
If I could leave I would, but dd’s disabilities mean she has special equipment and adaptions that can’t be moved, and she’d not cope elsewhere.

I don’t get how some vodka can ruin and shut down his body to such an extent of last weekend. He literally couldn’t walk. If I hadn’t seen it I wouldn’t have believed it - couldn’t hold body weight at all - trousers falling down his bum. Wobbling. Shaking

tho yesterday walking without his stick tho slowly - but still walked upright and unaided

why can he see what drinking does to his body

It's the effect the alcohol has on his already damaged brain, I'm afraid. He sounds very far gone.

DD's special equipment is why I'm wondering if since those are absolute necessities for her and you are her main carer it may mean that it's easier (relatively speaking) to get him out.

Probably not. But never hurts to explore the possibility.

So his brain is mushed as such ? Yet he can hold a normal conversation about football or talk about a tv programme etc and seem on the ball

but you are saying when drinks it shuts out /down motor skills as such ?

his legs literally wouldn’t walk /hold him last week

This is why we need an ELI5 neurobiologist. To explain how they can go from completely incapacitated to almost completely 'recovered' in a short period of time. And vice versa.

My 'hypothesis' is that their 'recuperative powers' after drinking are stronger than ours would be as non-alcoholics. The human body has amazing recuperative powers. Their bodies are used to the alcohol so it recovers sooner and is able to recover 'better' than ours would. And that they can appear more 'normal' with alcohol in their system than we would. But I also think that over time the recuperative ability diminishes and the organ damage sets in.

I also think it takes a massive amount of alcohol to completely incapacitate them in that way and that they lie about how much they've had. They build up a tolerance which is why they need more and more. And why they can 'walk and talk' with a higher level of alcohol in their system than we could. I once took my brother to a rehab . He didn't smell or appear drunk. He blew a .26! Legal here is .08.

I know what you mean about the differences from one day to the next. Just weeks ago dh was told he had encephalopathy due to the drink, and that the thiamine could reverse some if it , to some extent, not at all or completely. He didn’t remember names, hospital ward layout, where he was when he woke up, couldn’t remember the right words for things, clumsy and so on. The thiamine did a good job and now he is totally dismissive of any issues, denying he’s been told anything and that I am more or less making it up to stop grim drinking xx because it suits me.
He is back drinking, not taking the thiamine, and is so randomly variable. One night he can be walking like a crab and unable to remember anything, even that his daughter is home from hospital, to virtually normal the next day. Then, more alcohol, and he’s making up stories and talking to himself.
I think it’s brain damage, it just starts to look different to being drunk, and I think the brain is trying to compensate until it can’t.
One thing I notice all the time, and I don’t know if it’s just generally alcoholic behaviour or cognitive decline, but it’s disconnection from other peoples feelings. He has no ability to see any other point of view, no empathy, no concern for anyone, no understanding of social nuances anymore, it’s all about him. All the time.
Every is someone else’s fault and someone else’s responsibility to put right, the lies are just one after another, about nothing and everything. Yeti he manages to turn everything on to me, and sounds so reasonable and hard done to and I come away looking and feeling like a petty, confused moaner.

@Littlewhitedaisy, my Ex is completely like that now. He comes across as a complete narcissist - just in a vortex of what he thinks, what he wants, what he ‘needs’. He can be really kind to strangers, bizarrely, but is entirely extractive of anyone else.

He makes everything about him in a really weird way, especially someone else’s bereavement. An utter grief thief. It’s really odd to see.

No filter whatsoever, comes across as really weird due to the extent to which he can’t obey social norms anymore.

he’s never sober though. He starts to withdraw when his levels reach 0 so he just starts drinking again.

Sounds similar as well @Littlewhitedaisy. Amazing how they all sound similar

@Littlewhitedaisy I'm another chiming in saying that DH is the same way. Simply not able to see 'outside himself' and what he wants. He also 'rewrites history' or tells lies to justify his wants or why I should do or get XYZ for him.

I think it's because the craving for alcohol blots out any sense of right and wrong when it comes to their drinking. His ethics aren't completely gone, he wouldn't steal alcohol, he wouldn't rob someone for money for alcohol. But he thinks nothing of lying to me or to medical personnel about his drinking.

This is a man who was extremely honest and ethical in the 'before times' so I have to believe it's the addiction driving him.

ittlewhitedaisy

Buy a litre of vodka and leave it on the kitchen worktop........

If he gets abusive and nasty call the Police.

Ha! It’s crossed my mind that it would on some ways solve a big problem if he lost his temper.
Yes, I agree with the “before” @AcrossthePond55. Dh was the hardest worker, determined, would help anyone, kind, non judgmental person. Even now he would go out if his way to help or be kind to a stranger, or be the friendly, fun person with other people’s children, but has next to no connection or interaction with his own children beyond a surface level. Far from being kind, his actions and words and indifference are cruel. I think it’s part of keeping up appearances, which he doesn’t think he needs to do with us, we are just there, no effort needed.
Yet there are still times when I see the man underneath, the glimpses of when he is still the person I love. That’s why this is so hard, because while I know the here and now, and especially the girls are why I’m doing this, I still have the feeling of “maybe he’ll get better, what if I actually am over reacting and blowing up everything?”
Then I realise I’m not, and I’m never going to put my children at risk or choose his mess over them, his chaos over their loyalty, their future over what should have been.

@Littlewhitedaisy I agree with you about the power of the flashes of the old version of themselves - it provides hope, which for me was the last part of the anchor that held me. Once I let go of that, however devastating it was, it did free me.

Also thank you for the expression 'grief thief' up thread (sorry I can't see who it was) I've found that really helpful to explain many episodes in my life with my late husband.