Adoption

[Lancome]

I didn't know where to post this, but can anyone tell me if it's possible to Un- adopt a child. Give up all parental responsibilities?

Combined, take the 'adoptive' out of your post and read it again.

Would you suggest a 'parent' be legally stripped of their 'parenthood' in case their 'child' died and the 'parent' was considered as a carer for their 'grandchild'.

I think you probably didn't mean it that way, but that's one of the most offensive things I've read on the Adoption boards ever.

Why not just stamp us all 'not real parents'? I know, why not let us be 'real' parents whilst we're doing a good job and saving the state a fortune and advocating for our 'children' and making ourselves financially much worse off so we can give up work to be with our 'children', but then strip us if all legal rights/protections when it the problems not caused by us become overwhelming.

Seriously. You can't be suggesting that. Here. On a board full of adopters.

3point, my point was that if an adoption breaks down very quickly, should it be called an adoption at all. I can see where you are coming from, though, it was blunt, and I am sorry you took offence. In relation to "not caused by us", not all adoptive parents are ok parents, and some do in fact cause the problems. Just as some bio parents do not deserve to be parents, the same is the case with some adoptive parents (and no I am not talking about the K case). The problem is, this board is for discussion about all things adoption. Not just for adopters. There was a debate about whether it should be split and most people said no. To be honest, I take offence at a few things I read on here, but I don't mention them. Anyway, I will try to put things less bluntly and explain a bit more so as to cause less offence in future.

*rather than "very quickly" I think that should possibly read "as a result of abuse by AP".

But that's all covered by normal laws and normal considerations. You don't abuse your children and if you do there are (or should be) consequences.
I don't see why there needs to be a separate set of laws for adoptive parents.

Either adoption is final or it's not, it can't be final except when it's not.

Wow. These last few posts have been a brutal reminder why I rarely use MN for any serious adoption-related discussions. That was astonishingly insulting Combined. Thank goodness there are other sensitive and appropriate forums, such as AdoptionUK and the one Tokoloshe linked to.

What I asked about was not a change in the law - an adoption order can be overturned by another adoption order already so no change in law would be required, it would be a question of whether the court accepted the application, as I understand it. The thing about abuse in childhood where the abused is able to deal with the fall out and move on is that they often rarely talk about it, and rarely want to think about it. However, if they went through a court, a court would decide if there had been abuse and it would then be on record, and the adoption would be made nulled. If that didn't happen, and the adoptee died, potentially no one would know about the abuse, and SW might approach AP. If you have never had to think through such issues, then that is a blessing I think.

The same issues would in fact apply re bio family, but I wasn't thinking of that at the time.

Mydutifullaunderette, I don't think it was generally insulting or offensive but if you disagree contact mumsnet and ask them to delete it.

I have reflected on this for a few minutes. I don't think what I said was offensive but at the same time I don't want to cause offence and so I am going to stop posting.

Adoption is a red herring in your point combined. Adoption is irrelevant in every point you make. Yours is a point regarding a toxic adult and parent relationship.

Nothing will happen against any abusive parent if the abuse is never reported. Adoption is irrelevant.

A grandparent would be considered (not necessarily granted) as a carer if a parent dies and there are no criminal charges against them. Adoption is irrelevant.

In the case of delayed reported abuse from an adult survivor, no parental responsibility exists because the person is an adult. Adoption is irrelevant.

A long-lost parent could assume parental responsibility later in a child's life (I am thinking an absent father arriving in a child's teenage years) and unreported abuse could causes the breakdown of that relationship. Adoption is irrelevant.

Combined, what makes you think this is an issue to do with adoption?

I am all for varied discussion from a variety of angles, including the unique opinion of an adult who was the product of an unsuccessful adoption. It adds new dimensions to discussions. Unless there is a huge amount of projecting happening here, I have no idea what the point is you are trying to make?

Combined, what is your experience/ interest in adoption?
Several people have taken the time to ask you over the past few weeks, yet it is noticeable that you have not responded.
I ask because I have been totally aghast at some of your posts, therefore, just as you are interested in other people's perspectives, I along with others who have asked, are also interested in what experience has caused you to have the viewpoints that you do.
For the record, I have found several of your posts to be not just insulting but grossly shortsighted and rather alarming to be honest.

the same issues would in fact apply re bio family

Exactly. Thank you for acknowledging. The offence was because you were saying APs were less parenty than Ps and should be treated differently in law.

Please don't stop posting, especially if you have a different perspective on the adoption triangle (though I'd like to know what it is!)

ButtonMoonLoon, dare I ask what you have found alarming? (before I stop posting again)

3point, I confess that the post which offended you was a stream of consciousness post - it was about something I was thinking about at the time I posted and it was a bit careless mainly because one of my dc wanted to learn about the digestive system on youtube and then show me their poo...

I think the problem with divulging personal info online is that people can recognise you from your language, writing style etc, and then know personal info.. which quite often they don't want to know in the first place, lol.

It is also an issue that people start to be typecast in this section. Not to mention the fact that some of the APs start to gang up!

I can assure you I haven't meant to be inflammatory. And yes, my perspective is most certainly a bit different! Not very alarming though...

I don't think we gang up but if you tell us we're lesser parents you will likely incur our collective wrath. I'm sure you understand that.

And yes, I understand that you don't want to divulge.

I don't think anyone's asking for a name and address tbf! Lots of different people post here. Birth mums, prospective adopters, people who might be getting an sgo, people like spero and tethersend who have expertise in aspects of LAC policy and law, random people who pop in from active convos to tell us all any given behaviour is normal, foster carers, the baby stealing lot. But I'd say pretty much 100% of regular posters have an interest in adoption - they aren't just 'interested' there is a link of some kind. That includes the baby stealer people.

Otherwise it's just a bit fucking odd isn't it? If I started hanging out on ferretfanciers.com and giving people advice on ferrets and arguing with ferret fanciers about the best way to look after ferrets and then it became apparent that I didn't keep ferrets or particularly like ferrets and actually I was a bit dubious about the whole ferret thing but that I had met someone with ferrets once or twice in my life - a discerning mind might wonder if I was a. Just a person with a prurient if unacknowledged interest in ferrets or b. Something else even weirder.

And actually the only problems are the giving of advice where it conflicts with what we know about adoption/ferrets and the general disdain for the whole adoption/ferret enterprise.

MBK, the ferret thing is quite funny, but I think you should re-think the a-hole and "f*ing odd" references and the use of the word prurient.... really rude and I think an apology is owing. In relation to parenting techniques, I think possibly it would better to say "you know about different parenting techniques and have a different perspective from me/I don't understand could you explain" rather than "you know nothing about parenting techniques". Just saying. (And what I said didn't conflict, but even if it did a the training you get is widely acknowledged to be shambolic and b the efficacy of the training is subject to the comprehension of the person being trained. Non?) (And if I really get going I might start suggesting your interest in me has become prurient)

< runs for the hills, waiting for fury of volcanic proportions >

Do we think the OP is ever coming back? I last saw her posting on New Years Day on a thread she started that Fathers4Justice piled into and accused her of being Sam Cam and asking to use her loo.
She really does have a magic touch with threads!

Do you want a fury of volcanic proportions? I'm not sure I can be bothered. I've got a floor to mop, and as a reward some lovely fairtrade chocolate to savour. You keep on having a lovely time though, as I can only assume you enjoy it.

no I don't dutiful, and do you not think mbk deserves a bit of your censure too, as she has been ruder than I have?

mbk I have a pretty good understanding of attachment parenting.

kitchen

This thread originated in chat - people aren't coming over to adoption to be difficult.

baby stealing lot

Who are these people and what do they do?

I think combined has already told us upthread that she was raised in a family with adopted siblings, and has also line managed people with experience of adoption - or did I imagine that? I think that's all she's comfortable with sharing, and that's fair enough. We've had incidents before on the MN adopters board with posters perceiving that outsiders are coming in to tell them how it is, and bristling somewhat. combined, I doubt any of us wouldn't want diverse voices on adoption, and I for one am up for debate, but I think you need to realise (a) how much adoption has changed over the last 20 years, and (b) how often adoptive parents experience others (professionals, other parents, the media) telling us how it is rather than listening to us. So if you can bear that in mind, we'll all try to play nicely

thefamilyvonstrop - Missing me are you? Why exactly do you want me around and what do you mean by: She really does have a magic touch with threads!?!!

Jeeeeeeesus!

Lancome2 (why are there two of you?!) do you think familyvonstrop is troll-hunting? I didn't read that into her post - just a comment that two of the most interesting threads of the last few days have been started by you. (And you must admit, the other one was great )

Anyway, now that you're here, what do you think of the progress of this thread? Have you discussed further with your friend?