Adoption

[Lancome]

I didn't know where to post this, but can anyone tell me if it's possible to Un- adopt a child. Give up all parental responsibilities?

Yeah they should. Because also some people get told what spero was and then say 'yeah I'll take a year mat leave ' and then just take 6 months. They should know that in x percent of cases that happens and in y percent when aps say they'll lose weight/give up smoking /stop using the naughty step they don't. How else can they assess risk? But it's all so partial and opaque and subjective.

Maybe it's one for a university?

Equally, they told me I was adopting a straightforward 'no extra issues' LO and would be able to go back to work FT. She isn't and I wasn't, but SS don't know that. Because they never asked.

I agree that the assumption is that there shouldn't be follow up - and I think it must be a mixture of genuine and self serving motives that this line is peddled.

I do get the point that adoption is supposed to be about a 'forever family' and it isn't great to have continued, possibly intrusive intervention from state agencies.

But of course, sometimes that intervention is exactly what is needed to keep a family together and you aren't going to know unless you have some kind of follow up process.

I do however suspect that most of it is self serving and cost cutting, in the usual bonkers way of bureaucracy nowadays, that would rather spend £100s of pounds of cure than £1 of prevention.

I've forgotten who asked but there is a recent case on revoking an adoption order
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2015/2316.html
It is very rare indeed www.newlawjournal.co.uk/nlj/content/family-revoking-adoptions

Oh yes completely pi. It goes both ways - and probably more often this way I am sure.

Has everybody seen the new NICE guidelines on children with attachment disorders? It's here: www.nice.org.uk/guidance/indevelopment/gid-cgwave0675

It sets out what is considered good practice, and what I dearly wish was the reality.

I am a lurking teacher here, ignore me if this isn't relevant but don't adopted children receive the pupil premium throughout their school life? OFSTED require schools to do long term monitoring of specific groups of pupils. I cannot imagine it would be all that much red tape for ongoing basic tracking of adopted children to be done through school or education welfare.

I haven't really thought that through because it is suggesting more work for teachers, which is not a good idea. However since schools already have tracking in place for these children post-adoption, it has the mechanism to extend this.

PLenty of schools don't know their pupils are adopted. UNless a parent tells them they have no way of knowing, or if they are adopted whilst at the school.

And they'd need to link up with Ss for that to be helpful. And if you work in a school you'll know how much bureaucratic strategising would need to be done for that to happen!

and SS would have to link with each other as very often people move house between authorities before childrne start school.

Lancome2 re My friend and her son are very OK thank you. She thought (wrongly in my opinion) that she probably wasn't good enough for her son and through sobs said things like ''maybe I should just let him go to his dad before he's damaged'' (her exact words). I came up with the Un-adopt comment- and now I feel horrible.

I am so glad your friend and her son are doing better. The fact you said She thought (wrongly in my opinion) that she probably wasn't good enough for her son is very revealing and again, I would say this is not necessarily about adoption specifically either.

Re Nevertheless the parents' divorce has caused turmoil in the child's life- which by the way (as I'm sure you know) can happen to biological children too. Yes, 100% agree.

When couples break up there can be a real case of children playing mum or dad off against each other, or so I am led to believe, for all kinds of reasons. This is not to paint the child as the 'villain', maybe they just want reassurance etc. Plus mum and dad scoring points off each other and making up for hurts they have experienced, or perceived, through making life difficult for the ex partner. Not saying your friend or her son or her ex did this, but it does happen.

As women we are often led to doubt our abilities, as parents we question whether we can cope, so especially as mums I think we often wonder if we are doing a good enough job or not, and society/well-meaning friends/and less-well-meaning- frienemies/ etc can all pile in to make us feel a bit shit, intentionally or not.

Re It is my opinion and observation that he gets it easy with dad, who lets him get away with all sorts and this is where the mother strugggles as she'd rather he focused on school first and foremost. I know a divorced pair of bio parents where this is EXACTLY the case too!

I hope your friend feels better and her and her son go from strength to strength.

Fate destany suggest you google Gareth Marr or Adoption social regards pupil premium. Think you will see the the Great devide of doo's and dont's
may your LA will follow the Adoption train if you pass it on.

Devora at Wed 06-Jan-16 10:29:02 Yes, yes, yes.

Re - that social worker's view is a prime example of theory untainted by real life experience, in my view. Totally agree. Of course the old view was a fresh start, it is as if life were beginning again etc. If the family adopted a tiny baby they probably thought (still wrongly) that all would be well to ignore and deny the past. But the baby carried in ther body a reminder of something and it was already there. Move forward a few decades and we all know that that type of adoption is vanishingly rare. I know one real life adopter who adopted a new born baby but they were still about 12 or 13 weeks not 12 or 13 days! And the vast majority are much older.

The only person I know who I first met in real life (not on the boards here) who adopted a child and has attachment issues, actually adopted a baby (probably more like 1 year than new born).

My son (adopted at 3 and 3/4 or so) has bonded and attached very well, is very loving and mostly (apart from a few melt downs, which we are learning to cope much better with - distraction technique tonight worked amazingly well!). What my son had, which I believe made a massive difference was a very good, very committed foster family, just the one, despite a while as a looked after child, he was not 'passed from pillar to post' and I feel sure that family (especially the woman) made an amazing impact in his life.

So when you adopted someone of 3, not far off 4, you can't ever think it is a blank page, a new start, he is him, he brings himself to the relationship as we all do. The idea social services (or the government) aren't aware of this is ludicrous!

But I also know you know that!

Fatedestiny can I ask what exactly the pupil premium should be spent on. We have had no say except one small area where pupil premium was spent. Our son has been in education over a year! I don't even know how much it is!

Spero, Re your mention of such an appallingly awful story about the adopter who has/may lose her child.

Can I just ask if you are involved with her as a supporter?

If a child is taken away from a birth family member then usually a wider birth family member is selected and approved (if possible) to act as a foster carer or to have an SGO to look after the child, is that right?

Is that also the case for someone who became a parent by adoption?

I also know that in some cases someone who is not a relative but is a close friend of the family can offer to adopt a child when the child is removed from their family. Is this also the case with foster carers/SGO etc (that they do not need to be a relative?)

I am only asking because I am presuming this lady made some arrangements for what would happen to her child if she died, I know extreme circumstances! If me and dh die my sister would care for both my children (one a birth daughter and a son by adoption).

If something terrible happened and my husband and I were unable to care for our children, or social services felt we were unable to care for our children, I would hope my sister would be offered the chance of a SGO so that my children could remain in the wider family.

I recognise this may bring with it some limitations within the family, but knowing my children were with my wider family would be huge comfort for me. I do wonder if this may be a temporary or permanent option for this lady, I just wondered.

I am so very sorry to hear of her case.

Night all.

I don't know anything about the woman who left a comment on my blog, other than that comment but I hope she can find something on the blog that may help her.

Yes, family placements are always to be preferred if a child can 't live with mum/dad anymore but this doesn't seem to be happening when adoptive placements break down.

I can only assume this is because usually they breakdown because the child's behaviour is just impossible to contain anymore -often there is violence directed at the parent, running away, risky behaviour etc etc. I doubt that any other family member would be willing/able to try and contain that.

I suspect there is also a whiff of 'but you are not the REAL family' type thinking. I don't know for sure but it is interesting how many adoptive parents have told me that their teen is now back in contact with the birth family after disruption (often with the encouragement of the SW!) and the adoptive parent is simply frozen out and not given any information. Again, this likely stems from fact the the AP is often blamed as 'cause' of child's behaviour, given widespread lack of knowledge about attachment disorders.

For (hopefully) a minority of families it seems to be just one big horrible mess with no one really knowing what they are doing.

Italian, the pupil premium is £1900 p.a., I think. Strongly recommend you google it (or do a search on gov.uk) as some schools are taking a very self-serving interpretation of how it should be used. From memory, the parent cannot dictate how it should be used, but should be consulted - school should take a partnership approach. The money is not ringfenced but should not be absorbed into wider spending. It must be used to benefit that particular child. This doesn't mean that other children can't benefit, but the school shouldn't, for example, use the money as part of general school spending and argue that the child also benefits from that. (For example, if the child would benefit a particular group activity, then the money can be used to put on the group activity for the child and a wider group; but it shouldn't be used for something that's for the whole class on the grounds that the child will get some benefit, IYSWIM.)

The child doesn't need to be having academic problems. My dd, for example, is doing very well academically, but her emotional problems are a threat to her continued progress so the money is being used for therapy. The money can be used to fund quite a wide range of things that will benefit the child's learning, including extra-curricular activities.

There should be a teacher who has responsibility for the LAC and previously LAC kids - at our school it's the SENCO. If you haven't already, you should meet with them to discuss how the money will be spent. I think many adopters have found schools trying to wriggle out of this (it's a right pain for them to have these separate pots of money, especially when core budgets are so squeezed) so you may have to advocate quite strongly. Their performance in this area is supposed to be monitored by Ofsted.

can I ask what exactly the pupil premium should be spent on.

To raise achievement in disadvantaged children. But it is not ring fenced any further than this. Raising the achievement of all children would indirectly raise the achievement of disadvantaged pupils. So it doesn't need to be spent just on individual pupils who qualify.

Schools have to annually publish how they spend their PP (not individually per pupil, but how the whole pot of Pupil Premium money they receive is spent), so it should be on their website somewhere. Parents will have no say in how it is spent.

As long as the money is being used to raise achievement (and surely most of a schools budget has this aim?) then the Pupil Premium can be spent on anything.

For example:

• Extra teachers to allow more 121 time - but for everyone who needs it, not just disadvantaged pupils
• The cost associated with having training teachers in school (Schools Direct - where teacher training happens in school rather than at university). Because this brings in extra adults for more 121 time across the whole school
• Music tuition across the whole school (learning a musical instrument is shown to increase achievement)
• Visitors, residentials, trips - again for all (on the basis that these increase achievement for all)
• Books for the school library
• IT equipment
• Booster groups for certain year groups (usually in preparation for SATS)

A couple of very vague statements I have just found on my children's school website for their Pupil Premium spending:

• Support for children in emotional and physical wellbeing
• Funding support for wider involvement in school life to raise confidence and self-esteem

It isn't like this in all schools. Some schools will ring-fence to individual pupils. Or at least ring fenced to the group of people who qualify for the premium. But this (often) isn't the case and the big pot of money (a large primary school might get 200K PP money per year) is basically just swallowed by the school budget.

FATE, I don't have time to look for sources right now (will do so later) but I was fairly certain that, although the money is not ringfenced and the school decides how to spend it, it is supposed to be spent to directly benefit the child and not just swallowed into the school budget. The official announcement says, "The LAC premium must be managed by the designated virtual school head (VSH) and used for the benefit of the looked-after child’s educational needs as described in their personal education plan. The VSH should ensure there are arrangements in place to discuss how the child will benefit from pupil premium funding with the designated teacher in the child’s education setting."

It has been my experience so far that a school can involve the parent in how the money is directed, and for us that has made all the difference in building security at school. We have a termly review meeting with the class teacher and SENCO about progress against objectives (using a PEP style review, although PEPs are not obligatory - yet - for adopted children).

The Sutton Trust toolkit is a great resource for schools about how to direct the funding: www.suttontrust.com/about-us/education-endowment-foundation/teaching-learning-toolkit/

I thought a LAC was one in foster care or looked after my the local authority. Once adopted, does a child keep LAC status?

I am aware that LAC are treated slightly different to 'general' pupil premium pupils. They get priority school places, as was mentioned upthread, for example. They are also tracked as a group of pupils because OFSTED asks that schools minimise the gap between LAC achievement and the national average achievement.

I have to say I don't know the ins and outs of this policy. I am not part of decisions on PP spending or know it in any great detail. You may well know better than me. I've heard of something called Pupil Premium Plus, I have to say I don't have enough detailed knowledge to know what this is.

For the purposes of PP and school admissions, children adopted from care are being treated the same as children currently in care. So I'm using LAC to cover both.

I think it was called PPP last year, but now it's just called PP again. Somebody else might know better

mydutifullaunderette, at my school we had to get ourselves involved, and setting up the adoptive parents group was very helpful in terms of setting expectations and sharing good ideas. The SENCO attends once a term.

Italian, I know your son is doing fantastically well right now, but bearing in mind how young he is and that problems may develop in the future, I would strongly advise getting the school trained up in partnership working with you. They should not just be absorbing the money into the general pot, and they should be discussing with you how they will use this funding to benefit your son.

Thanks Devora - I had spotted in one of your other posts that you had this group set up and it was proving useful in all sorts of ways. It's a good idea!

For the purposes of PP and school admissions, children adopted from care are being treated the same as children currently in care. So I'm using LAC to cover both.

In that case there are even more checks and tracking in place for these pupils in school. I didn't know adoptees were grouped with LAC. LAC are tracked throughout school. So going back to my original point, social services could request basic rudimentary follow-up information on adopted children directly from school without anyone needing to collect any additional data. An annual tick-box follow up could be added for the sake of SS adoption follow up.

All of this does come down to parents though. It is up to an AP to let the school know the pupil is adopted, they can choose not to and so that child is never tracked. It is also up to an AP to engage in school follow ups so take up wouldn't be 100%.

The idea for adoption follow up is a good one, I think. This would be a way for some interested research group (who that would be I have no idea) to start that following up.

Devora Re Italian, I know your son is doing fantastically well right now Thank you, it doesn't always feel like fantastic but he does seem fairly well attached to me.

I do hope I am not fooling myself

I am really not even sure how to gauge these things. I am just basing it on how my daughter and I get on/connect/feel together having been in each others' lives for the last 11 years compared to ds and I being in each others' lives for under 2 years.

Re but bearing in mind how young he is and that problems may develop in the future, I would strongly advise getting the school trained up in partnership working with you. They should not just be absorbing the money into the general pot, and they should be discussing with you how they will use this funding to benefit your son.

This is a very good point and I do understand. I mentioned PPP/PP to the school when ds first started and they said I could not decide how it was spent! I was really given the impression as FATEdestiny's post at Thu 07-Jan-16 11:40:13 that it did just get absorbed into the general funds. And I do feel for it to be used for the general kids etc is pretty crap.

He has only been in school a year, we started him slightly late, a year ago, and he is only 5, so in some ways this is not an issue I have got to grips with it.

Nothing has so far presented where I thought I really wanted to get some help with that, and not had a chance to get help. The local post adoption team are actually very good. I know I need to whisper that because some people's post adoption support is so crap. We have not had major issues so no idea how we would experience things if we did have them.

I've also found that ds is able to adapt quite well to stuff given time. He seems to learn well, and so in lots of ways he is easier to parent than our dd! Who knows if this will continue! But tips and ideas always welcomed. XXXX