Adoption

[Lancome]

I didn't know where to post this, but can anyone tell me if it's possible to Un- adopt a child. Give up all parental responsibilities?

Yes, as devora said, I just meant that you had been having an exciting mumsnet time at the moment with your threads.
Not sure what the shocked face is about though - I would have thought being accused of being the wife of the PM and refusing to let fathers4 justice use your loo is more shocking than my post.

Doitanyways this isn't really about this specific thread (understatement of the century - and I didn't get that from familyvonstrop's post either op)

The baby stealing lot are the forced adoption people who pop up every now and again to tell us how shit adoption is. They don't usually hang around to answer other posts though...

Where's the Sam Cam thread?

It's gone sadly but was utterly nuts. There were several posters who genuinely believed the OP was Sam cam. They really thought on NYE Sam cam would be posting a thread complaining about f4justice shitting all around her country home and might be swayed to let them use her loo.

I've really liked this thread. I don't care if it might have been started as a troll thread. The discussion has been very thought provoking and I have enjoyed following it.

(and thanks for clearing up the baby stealing thing kitchen)

I used Lancome2 because of 'log in' problems I had with MN- site over the weekend- I believe this happened with quite a few people.

What do I think of the thread? I am flabbergasted. What I've read is interesting and some of it very annoying- especially because my friend had no idea (at-all) that I'd ''run to MN'' to discuss her ongoing 'issue' with her DS.

My friend and her son are very OK thank you. She thought (wrongly in my opinion) that she probably wasn't good enough for her son and through sobs said things like ''maybe I should just let him go to his dad before he's damaged'' (her exact words). I came up with the Un-adopt comment- and now I feel horrible.

The response on this thread has been at times hurtful although some of it has been educating.

Devora, thanks, though no I didn't have adopted siblings (by grew up with i meant was close to for a long period of time). I would comment though that in relation to trauma and attachment, these are really serious issues when a child has been very ill for a long period at a time especially when they are not verbal enough to communicate properly their needs, etc, and so you may find non adopters with a bit of experience/interest in what is being said on here sometimes in that respect.

Sorry about your thread going off in tangents, Lancome2.

I still can't believe people would imagine Samantha Cameron posting here about F4Justice. (Like she has the time)?!.

MN deleted the thread.

Lancome, I'm glad your friend is doing well with her son.

combined, sorry I misunderstood and misrepresented your experience. I agree that trauma and attachment issues affect non-adopted children too. I would love to have more input from people with experience/expertise on that on adoption threads, to broaden our understanding. For example, I understand that premature babies often experience attachment problems as a result of spending their early weeks in an incubator. I don't know if anybody is doing research on this or advocating for differences in care as a result. I'm interested because my dd spent her first couple of months in NICU without any primary carer (and no visits from birth family) which - I am convinced - was highly damaging and really substandard care.

Sounds like a very difficult situation made worse by the relationship between this lady and her ex husband. It may be that being at boarding school has triggered emotions of rejection in the boy from when he was initially adopted and he is subconsciously blaming mum for. He might just be thinking the grass is greener with dad. I know of someone personally wo has effectively lost her daughter to her ex after he schmoozed her away. The rea,it is adoption is for life, just apthe same as being a birth parent. In this scenario a birth parent would either fight to win said child back and take dad to court or give the child the space to decide what they want to do if they are old enough to make that decision. It's a horrible situation really and sounds like this lady has been driven to unimaginable emotions that many people cannot bear to hear. Adopted children can often be highly manipulative especially is there are attachment difficulties and it really is parenting plus which can lead to emotional burnout. Whilst I find it hard to read that someone wants to I adopt their child I do wonder about what's led them to this point and why the relationship has broken down so badly. I hope she's able to sort through it all with them both.

Aaaah sorry I posted with getting to the end of the thread.... I'm glad your friend is ok.

Snap Devora I think ds's early months alone in NICU followed by institutional care had a massively damaging effect on him

sorry Lancome I am confused.

You said originally Child went to visit father for Xmas, now does not want come back to Mother!
To say she's heartbroken is understatement- she feels it's best to let him go. ( for good)

which did sound pretty much like she wanted to 'unadopt'.

But I am glad if that is not the case and they are both doing ok.

horribly coincidentally I have just found this comment on my blog:

I am an adoptive mother who had my child removed by this same abusive system. I couldn't have children. After deciding to adopt rather than IVF, I went through years of assessments before I was matched. I chose an older child that no one wanted. I loved my child well but my young one was so traumatised and we needed help that wasn't forthcoming.

Care proceedings began with an EPO after I turned to the police for help in desperation, and a lie from the social worker to the police. With no time I couldn't get a lawyer. I just had a strange barrister that knew nothing about us and told me to 'play the game'. I was shocked and traumatised - so was my child. My child's sense of stability and security was forever destroyed.

I found myself in court facing unfounded allegations that I was mentally ill and a substance abuser. I worked as a therapist in a drug project before adopting. Nevertheless, I had to prove my innocence whilst my child's separation trauma was re-evoked by proceedings. I have lost faith in the legal system. It was dreadful. My child and I wish to be reunified - but there is no help or support for this. I relate to everything you say because I have been there too. It is horrible to be so persecuted.

This system is so flawed and there needs to be a whole family approach - the worst was the guardian when I applied for the care order to be discharged - working with my child's solicitor to sabotage my case - and together with the local authority preventing fair assessments being done in court. The police wanted paying to come to court. I could not afford this. I could not believe the divisive approach taken to the family and the way I was denigrated by all.

The MP referred me to barprobono to get legal support - but demand is so high that I eventually got a barrister four months after the case was finished! What ever you do you cannot win. One argument for the care order was because the support the child gets is better than adoption. Sadly this is true and over £1 million will be spent on breaking up this family instead of supporting us. That is a 20th of the entire Adoption Support Fund!

I spoke with a social worker yesterday about the 'follow up' issue and she confirmed that there is no follow up precisely because adoption is about the child becoming a member of the family and the family are expected to be his/her advocates. Continued state intervention is discouraged; that is seen as the positive of adoption.

but I think this is a hang over from the 1970s when adoption was mostly babies given up at a very early age by young or single mothers. There just wouldn't be the degree of attachment difficulties that we now see.

ThreeBecomeFour- Thanks for your post. I should point out that relationship between mother and child is VERY loving.

It is my opinion and observation that he gets it easy with dad, who lets him get away with all sorts and this is where the mother strugggles as she'd rather he focused on school first and foremost. There's also the question of not having a male figure to look up to and perhaps this is where he feels he needs his dad around. That's it really.

Nevertheless the parents' divorce has caused turmoil in the child's life- which by the way (as I'm sure you know) can happen to biological children too.

Spero - that social worker's view is a prime example of theory untainted by real life experience, in my view. The Govt does of course recognise the continuing needs of adopted children, which is why it has provided priority school admissions and the adoption support fund. So it makes no sense at all to imply that follow-up somehow spoils the sanctity of adoptive parenting. Plus, there is a world of difference between follow-up that is continued social services authority/interference, and follow-up that is evaluation and refinement of the agreed support package. It's not about continued scrutiny of the parents; it's about ensuring that the adoption system is working well and that parents are able to access appropriate support in a timely way.

But I know you know that!

But there's a difference between 'we still loom large in your life' and 'we need to ask some questions after the fact to establish whether our original process worked'. What 3.1415 suggests is just basic action planning practice surely?

X post. I don't just wait for devora to post and then paraphrase it (usually).

And I think it's quite telling that this sw couldn't tell the difference between those two things. ..

to be fair to the SW we were just having a chat outside court, I wasn't cross examining her in detail!

But its an easy get out isn't it - we don't have to spend time and money helping you, are are supposed to be doing it all yourselves, that's the whole POINT of adoption.

I think it is VERY telling that someone mentioned the issue of work and that adoption agencies need to be more honest about this. I was brutally rejected by Action for children when I asked to be assessed as potential adoptive parent - I told them I would take 6 months off work and they said they wouldn't consider anyone who worked full time.

At the time I thought this was unreasonable, but now I see it as a mark of my naivety. I was asking to be considered for a child between 3 and 5 so almost inevitably I think a child of that age would have needed my full time consideration for many years and it just wouldn't have been possible to work at the same time.

Devora and Kewcumber, how sad, I am so sorry. I completely agree it would have had a hugely significant affect. I hope you find the info which will help. There is a lot of research about the neurological affects and trauma and therapy for trauma generally and I feel sure there must be interest groups focusing on the early days.

Lancome2, if my dh and I split up, I would not be at all surprised if dc's decided they wanted to live with dh at 14 - even if our relationships were still good at the time - they would definitely get away with more and have more of a wild time with dh! But I would hope that dh and I would be able to agree on what would actually be best for dc, which would probably be staying with mean mummy but having more fun quality time arranged with dh. Hopefully we won't have to face all that though...

Spero, that sounds awful, poor woman. And in relation to the hangover from the 1970s I think that that is exactly right - I am guessing that there are many aspects of adoption which have been reviewed by child psychologists and there have been all sorts of recommendations which are being lost in bureaucracy. With huge financial and social cost to society generally.

we don't have to spend time and money helping you
My point wasn't about helping us (though it would be nice), it would be about checking their own stuff worked.

(I made promises about watching my weight. I did not keep those promises. If I was SS, I'd want to know that, not so I could berate me, but so I could learn that such promises made in the future by others may also be empty.)

But whether its about offering you help or just monitoring your performance, that still involves a cost to the state and a social worker who is monitoring rather than carrying out child protection work.

I can see why there are difficulties, given lack of funds generally. If there is no money to provide mental health crisis beds for children, there won't be any money for monitoring how adoptions are working out - is my assumption.

Oh yeah, I understand why they don't. Totally. They just should. But there appears to be an assumption (all round, really), that they shouldn't.

It might even save them money. (I don't want to know what it cost to sit around endlessly discussing my effing weight...)

But the state's never big on (and less so than normal, currently) spending money now to maybe save money later.

I'd settle for there being an assumption that they should, but can't afford to.