Occupation order hearing next week, panicking

[mamacat612]

Can anyone tell me what my chances are or have any experience of this?

I am divorcing my husband, we have one child. I left the family home with our child to go live with family members due to his angry outbursts.

I asked him within a few weeks to please move out of the home and allow myself and our child to move back in. This is for stability for our child. He refused and said he has no where else to go. This is partially true, we moved to an area to be close to my family when we had our child and his parents and family members do live hours away, I don’t dispute this.

I applied for an occupation order on advice.

He is saying if he is forced to leave the home, that he will have no choice but to move back to parents which means loosing his job, or be homeless.

We both earn similar amounts, neither of us can afford a private rental and paying half the mortgage which I have accepted in my statement.

He is saying in his statement that I can get housing benefit and rent with our child and has done a calculation! Or live with family members but I want our child to be back in the family home. My family members can’t accomodate us long term and it’s crapped as we are in a flat.

He has started financial proceedings for the divorce as we haven’t been able to agree with either the sale of the house or buying each other out.

If I am to move back in I can’t afford the mortgage alone and would need him to still pay his half.

I don’t have any concrete evidence of his angry outbursts other than my statement, no other witnesses. But I can’t move back in and live with him until this is all sorted, his behaviour scares me.

For his part he says we did argue at the end of the relationship, but he denies any angry outbursts or intimidating behaviour.

We are both self representing and there will be a legal advisor at the hearing to ask questions.

Again you show your ignorance.

Judges are very well positioned to extrapolate information from the itness statements and oral evidence, decide which and whose evidence is on balance more likely and make the appropriate decision regarding any order.

It's everyday bread and butter for them.

Would OP be happy when her child is going off to stay in a house share for the weekend?

As I said, I disagree.

I see directness, not unkindness.

Can I check my understanding @mamacat612?

You are delaying the sale because you want a higher value despite a lower valuation getting you out of the situation sooner.

You are happy to progress legal challenges as it “isn’t costing you anything”

You can’t work FT because you’re breastfeeding despite many mothers working FT and breastfeeding

You can’t work FT because you have a clingy kid despite most kids being clingy and their parents having to work FT

You have somewhere to stay but expect your stbx to make himself homeless so you can stay in the family home

You think it’s reasonable for your stbx to have to lose his job, possibly whilst homeless, whilst you’re not choosing to work FT and have multiple options of places to live in

You say you couldn’t live in the family home now because he’s there and you’re frightening of him but you say he’s rarely there as the post is piling up etc.

What am I missing?

Can you see how others (including the court) might view this?

Eh? It’s your house as much as it is his house. You don’t need him to be out to do work on it. You just do it.

This makes no sense. I thought you said he was previously pushing to get quotes for “random contractors” to do the work but you were obstructing it.

So presumably he’d be happy for said contractors to do the work

I’m sorry to say but your chances of getting the occupation order are virtually zero.

I live with my ex and 3 months ago applied for a non mol and an occupation order. The judge wouldn’t grant the occupation despite me having police reports about domestic abuse, proof of his drug use and evidence that he could live elsewhere.

The non mol was granted though, which could be an option for you. He can’t talk to me about anything other than the children. If he were to threaten me, touch anything of mine, literally say or do anything aggressive he will be arrested. There is also a stipulation that he has 6-12 months to find somewhere to live and move out.

Yes it’s hard living with him, but I feel protected having the non mol in place as he hasn’t stepped a toe out of line since I took him to court.

He could take her elsewhere - or he could come to the home and the OP leave when he has contact.

So the choices when her parents house sells are (unless there is another option she hadn’t shared);

• move home but expose the child to either an aggressive scary ex or mutually aggressive arguments between parents. Remember that the ex tried to snatch the child from this mother in anger. That’s frightening for a child. That’s not ok.
• move into a room in a shared house with unknown people.

A good dad in this situation would move elsewhere so his child could have stability.

That’s awful. That’s leaving you in a risky situation. I get that it’s a draconian measure to stop someone living in their own home but living with someone you are scared of is so bad for you. I’m so sorry.

And what’s the point of the non-mol if you have to live with him? I mean it puts him under more pressure to behave but just a look could set your fight flight screaming. That is not a trauma informed decision and shows how the law is still not protecting women from DV.

Thank you. It’s awful isn’t it. Even my solicitor said there had to be significant domestic violence for a judge to grant it. So he has to do something awful to me before I can get him out.

I have no idea why you’re hurling abuse, the op herself has said she’s no evidence and no history of complaints, all she’s got is statements she’s got her mates and family to write,

if it’s ignorant of me to go by what the op is saying and you know more, do share,

Why are you being so inflammatory? I said you are ignorant of the law. That is a fact not abuse.

you need to accept your going to lose money on the house and get rid
how would you get him to fund 1/2 the renovations and still pay 1/2 the mortgage this will take well over a year to sort
It’s completely unrealistic to think you can finish it
also you’ll be paying fees and interest in the mortgage
cut your losses

Based on what OP has said about financials, I don't think you can presume her only option for private accommodation would be a room in a shared house.

She's said her and STBXDH earn similar amounts, and suggested he could get a bedsit. OPs ability to afford housing even on her PT hours will be higher than his, because as primary carer she's the one with access to top up benefits, is likely claiming CB too, and isn't paying maintenance unlike him. And we know he supplied a calculation for how she could privately rent, which OP didn't dispute on the facts but on the basis that she didn't want to.

She's said they both couldn't afford to rent privately, but given the context I think that must mean a larger house since she also reckons STBXH has some private rental options. So at minimum a bedsit and plausibly a fully self contained studio or one bed flat might be an option here, based on OPs information.

I'd like to know what's happened to the money taken out as loans for the home improvements?

As for the house not being sellable in its current state, that's just absolute nonsense. A property will sell at any state if the price is right!
An absence of skirting boards and door handles is no impediment whatsoever!!
I'm 68 and could fit those myself.

You forgot that OP wants her ex to lose his job, move away but still pay half their mortgage, half nursery fees, CMS whilst there will be a court order that bans him from the house.

He will obviously only be able to pay his share if he can remain employed, but in order to be employed he can't be expected to live on the streets and he can't afford a rental anymore than OP can. He is also supposed to have their child every other weekend and 1 night in the week, which he can't do if he has to move hours away to live with family where he has no job, or live on the streets, or live in a bedsit somewhere in the area.

It's just completely unrealistic to think that a judge would agree to disadvantage one parent to such extent.

What would you say the ideal is for their child? That’s who should be front and centre.

The ideal is for the house to be sold asap and split the assets. But OP won't.

The ideal is for their parents to stop weaponising the courts to get one over the other side. But OP won't.

Clearly the house sold asap and both parents housed in an appropriate self managing way with the ability and space to both see and care for their child,

This.

I am not going to pull out of the hearing now as it’s next week and I have nothing to loose? It hasn’t cost me any money.

Going to the courts so far has not cost you any money, but it has cost you a significant amount of goodwill that you might have otherwise expected from your husband in negotiating a fair and reasonable break. The way you are approaching this is from an unnecessarily fixed position, and because you do not have legal counsel who could anticipate what sort of actions will get you and your DC in the long-term the best settlement, you are likely to come out of this with something is not only much less than you're demanding now, but possibly less than you would have obtained had you been a bit more accommodating.

It doesn't sound like, from your hostile replies to the PP giving you good advice on this thread, that you are going to heed any of it. You are aggrieved and feel that as, by your perception, you are the injured party, that all your demands will be me without any consideration of your husband's needs or even what might be in the best interests of your DC. This selfish view, combined with your naivety over how the family court system actually works, is going to cost you I fear.

Perhaps you should take how ever many days there are left before your occupation order hearing to take the counsel of a solicitor. The women posting on this thread do wish you well and mostly are dismayed that you seem hell-bent on doing it your way with total disregard for anything or anyone else. Good luck.

This is the issue with litigants in person, they dont understand the ramifications of what they are doing.

the op will fail next week, and if the ex does have legal advice he will know he can use that failure to apply for a financial remedy order and force the house sale on the back of it.

I take it you agree that on the evidence given, you were premature to frame this as a choice between OP moving back into the house (entirely omitting the issue of how DH is then able to continue living near the job that allows him to pay his half of the mortgage etc) or OP plus DC going into a houseshare then?

If we're talking ideals, that would involve there being enough money to cushion DC from the worst of the upheaval here. Unfortunately it would seem from the limited information that's not the case. Nobody's 'should' is going to magic up enough money for DH to pay 50% mortgage until OP can realise her deposit, childcare and maintenance plus his own housing.

With that in mind, especially with the job market being as it is, a quick sale and them both renting whatever their income and in OPs case income plus benefits will afford them may be the best option in the circumstances. Obviously there's lots of information missing here, like whether OP has any other local relatives who they could stay with, so it's hard to be certain. But then that was all the more reason not to frame this as her living in the house vs a houseshare with strangers in the first place.