Wow the casual racism of some people is shocking isn’t it?

[clary]

I was at an event today working with an older woman who seemed very pleasant (I don’t know her well). We had a list of names of people involved and she looked at an Irish name (Eoghan) and said to me “well how do you say that?” I said hmm, not sure, so I googled it and came up with the answer (Oh-an or Ow-en). All good. But then she says “Goodness me, I just wish they would spell their names correctly!”

This is a racist comment isn't it? I was aghast. I mean, I am by no means a perfect person, but I cannot imagine saying that. In fact even tho it was slightly awkward (it was a casual conversation with someone I don’t know) I did call her out on in and say “Well it is a different language! Would you say that about someone with a Russian name?” but I am not sure she took it on board.

Not sure what I am asking really. But have others come across this? Should we continue to challenge it and what should I say?

So British history then?

Listen, I dropped history and geography in favour of sciences and languages as early as I could - but even I know that huge swathes of Irish history are also British history! Doesn’t paint the British in a wonderful light, admittedly - but surely that’s similar for the shared history of Britain and many other countries too. Does not mean they shouldn’t teach it!

Do you genuinely not understand that the history curriculum will differ between countries?

@YolandaWinstonwhy are you speaking to me as if I’m some kind of dullard instead of actually engaging with the perfectly valid points I have made?

Don't be daft, OP.

That is manifestly untrue and such an as hominem comment is the last resort of someone who knows they’re on shaky ground in any discussion.

See? “Don’t be daft, OP”.

”Get a grip, OP”.

Just two such comments on this thread - so sure of themselves and their anti-Irish stance that they apparently think any elaboration is unnecessary.

On shaky ground. You're hilarious. Do you always take yourself so seriously?

@SharkyBait Yes white Irish is not the same as white British. So without you meaning to you are confirming exactly the casual racism she spoke of .

That's it. Time to let AI take over. There is no natural intelligence left. But it is funny 😀

As often the case, first post nails it.

It’s not racist, but it’s ignorant and anti-Irish.

She sounds a bit thick if she doesn’t realise other countries have other languages, with different pronunciations to English.

@YolandaWinstonI mean, I’m still waiting for you actually to engage with the substantive points but seems you’re unable to, so have resorted just to insulting me.

Why don’t you have a think and come back to me?

Under the Equality Act, “race" is a protected characteristic that includes colour, nationality, and ethnic or national origins.
So OP wasn’t really wrong from that point of view.
(There are no legal protections against xenophobia as it’s not defined as a term in UK legislation.)

I agree, which is what I would have done in the first place.

Now I’ll admit I’m confused, but nonetheless pleased we have reached a degree of consensus. 😅

Hi all and thanks for the comments – some interesting points of view here for sure and food for thought for me, so I appreciate you taking the time to post.

A couple of things I want to address:

• The ageism thing – again, apologies for the comment that she was older. I agree that it’s not relevant (though I am also old, as it goes) and will watch for such from myself in future. The reason I added it is that IME some people excuse offensive comments from people over, say, 70yo, on the grounds that “that’s just how they think” because they are the age they are. (I don’t think we should do this btw.)
• Pronunciation – I have absolutely no issue with people asking how you say a name. My name for example would be a struggle perhaps for a French person. What I said was that after a discussion of how to say Eoghan, she said that “They [Irish people] should spell their names correctly”. Which yunno, they do. And I don’t see why this chap should change the spelling of his name to Owen tbh. Any more than someone (probably French) should spell their name of Guillaume as William. Thanks to those who did pick this up.
• Aghast – probably an excessive choice of word. Sorry about that.
• She knew that the person was Irish and definitely not a child. When she said “they” it seemed clear to me that she meant Irish people, or at least people with Irish-origin names. If she didn't, then she must have meant anyone with a name that she cannot immediately pronounce – which is worse tbh.

Anyway like I say, interesting comments and lots of things for me to think about, so thanks again. I did call her out btw (as my OP states) – I started the thread to wonder if people thought I was right to do so, if they thought it was racist, and what they might have said. Interesting to note, for example, the comments about xenophobia.

Haha yes I thought this. Casual agism

I remember when racism had to be racist.

My dc have Irish middle names, as their dad is Irish. I spelt out my fourth child’s middle name to the health visitor, who looked extremely dubious at the spelling. I said, “Oh, I just wanted to give them names that they won’t be able to spell.” She stared at me blankly, and asked, “Why would you do that?”

There are odd spellings of names, and there are Irish spellings of names. Some people don’t know the difference.

😆

They used to be considered so on government forms.

Irish isn’t a race?? The British press on as daily basis is far more racist - this is fairly minor in comparison!

Casual racism is also when one is not British and they tell us, "Wow, your English is so good...".