Wow the casual racism of some people is shocking isn’t it?

[clary]

I was at an event today working with an older woman who seemed very pleasant (I don’t know her well). We had a list of names of people involved and she looked at an Irish name (Eoghan) and said to me “well how do you say that?” I said hmm, not sure, so I googled it and came up with the answer (Oh-an or Ow-en). All good. But then she says “Goodness me, I just wish they would spell their names correctly!”

This is a racist comment isn't it? I was aghast. I mean, I am by no means a perfect person, but I cannot imagine saying that. In fact even tho it was slightly awkward (it was a casual conversation with someone I don’t know) I did call her out on in and say “Well it is a different language! Would you say that about someone with a Russian name?” but I am not sure she took it on board.

Not sure what I am asking really. But have others come across this? Should we continue to challenge it and what should I say?

It depends how educated she is. If not very, then it is possible that she genuinely thinks that Irish is just an English dialect. That would explain the "spell properly" comment. Either way she comes across as quite ignorant.

"these folk". Really?

Don't underestimate how strong the anti-English sentiment is in Ireland.

Very true and apologies if I implied you couldn’t. I’m just sick and tired of everything being racist & any kind of Irish victim narrative as we’re far from it.

I prefer to call out ignorant people directly (as I would have done directly with this lady) rather than looking for racist intent & starting a thread to hope to prove my point.

I have an overwhelming urge to post a few Tommy Tiernan clips here, particularly the one about meeting the lads in the hospital and also the Irish in airports. But I won't.

I can’t help it if you don’t understand how real anti-Irish feeling is in a minority of English people, exclusively white and middle-aged and above in my experience. That is not any kind of victim narrative. It is my experience in living in England for many years. I encountered it in professional workplaces, from complete strangers, from family members of friends, at an awards ceremony, from one of my child’s primary school teachers.

There was a list going around, of Irish names that are not said as they are written. https://www.boredpanda.com/irish-names-youre-probably-saying-wrong/#:~:text=Tadhg%2C%20Fiachra%2C%20Ois%C3%ADn%2C%20Aoife%2C%20Caoimhe%2C%20%C3%93rlaith%2C%20Fionnuala%2C%20Sadhbh%2C,Latin%20letters%20with%20different%20sounds%20and%20spelling%20rules The Maltese surname Casha is said 'Qah-xah'.

I would say you’ve been very unlucky @SixThirtyTwoas that’s not been my experience at all after 30 years living in England - yes, I’ve come across the odd ignorant dickhead but definitely a minority situation & I’ve always called them out (& received apologies from them, no verbal arguments back).

Yes. These folk. Ignorant little Englanders who can’t/won’t be told because they’re apparently from an age when the Empire was a Good Thing.

And I am not in Ireland. I live in London.

And is it any wonder we’re annoyed at times when you we encounter ignorant (usually older) people here who say stuff like this, telling us to spell our names “properly” and other ignorant nonsense.

You sound equally as ignorant unfortunately.

@B9waitinghappy to hear your experience has been different from the variety of arguments we’ve had back on this thread. But, as you can see, plenty do argue back and ultimately think Irish people should just put up and shut up. Some of the views expressed have been really quite aggressive (though I concede that could be Keyboard Warrior Syndrome).

Why do I sound equally ignorant?

My posts clearly show I am very far from ignorant and no random on the internet is likely to shake my confidence there!

I mean, the first post. This is how unreasonable she thinks the OP’s observation is. This is not an unusual view, clearly.

@mnhqhere’s the anti Irish sentiment on your site, in case you are still wondering about it (despite, I understand, having been told many, many times).

@Piglet89 is the least ignorant person on this thread

@JaneJefferthank you!

Polishes buckle of little Leprechaun top hat all the English posters on this thread presumably think we all wear.

It’s like looking in the mirror 😂

I'm Irish. Disappointing to see you "othering" English people while denouncing them doing the same to the Irish. All while you choose to live in England.

Nonsense. I am calling out a section of the English population for views they hold (and sometimes actually express) which are ignorant and discriminatory. That’s not “othering” them.

The fact I choose to live in England doesn’t mean I’m somehow wrong for doing that.

If that “disappoints” you - well, so be it.

Let’s look at it another way. Sri Lankan surnames. They do tend to be longer and more complex than the average. I’m not running around the place saying “Ooh that’s a lot of letters - why can’t they just have ordinary short surnames like we do?!”

Wouldn’t go down all that well if I suggested that to a senior leader in the organisation for which I work (who is of Sri Lankan origin) if I did that, would it? Because it’s an ignorant, discriminatory thing to say and frankly, because my organisation would start to worry I wasn’t bright enough to do the job I’m paid to do if I can’t cope with a couple of extra syllables in a surname.

But you denounced the whole of Ireland as having anti English sentiment and that’s ok is it?

you'd have a point if OP had said 'the casual xenophobia/ignorance/discrimination' of some people is shocking, isn't it?

But she didn't. If you claim something is racist (or anything 'bad') you need to back it up, or be prepared for someone to say you're wrong.

Nobody is saying racism is better or worse than any other type of phobia/discrimination, just that this specific example isn't racist. It's exactly the same as if OP had said the woman was being sexist because her comment was about a boy's name - she'd be wrong then as well.

It wasn't sexist and it wasn't racist. That doesn't make it right.

I don't live in England. And I said it exists in Ireland which it does.

Well no, you didn’t imply that. But you did instruct me to move on, which seemed kind of rude to me. Maybe I picked you up wrong. It doesn’t matter really.

My perspective is that the particular history here is relevant to why it is incredibly crass for anyone (but perhaps especially a British person) to make remarks about the Irish needing to spell their names properly. I’d also venture that quite a lot of British people don’t know that history. And I think I would credit most British people with the general goodwill and good sense not to want to cause offence out of ignorance. I don’t know why anyone would be offended by having this stuff civilly pointed out.

I agree - and I also think to call this racism is to denigrate the more serious and overt discrimination against some people from the moment one lays eyes on them - because of the colour of their skin.

But many of the posts don’t say “Oh op this isn’t racism - it’s Xenophobia….Not that that makes it right at all - I agree it’s unacceptable”.

Many of them are just like “Not racism, nothing to see here”. Or even worse: “Get a grip, OP (who has spotted something ignorant and xenophobic) just be quiet”. Just shutting it down like it doesn’t matter.

Half of the English don’t know the history - they’re just busy learning about Henry the 8th and his six knives and all that.

I think it was that.