Wow the casual racism of some people is shocking isn’t it?

[clary]

I was at an event today working with an older woman who seemed very pleasant (I don’t know her well). We had a list of names of people involved and she looked at an Irish name (Eoghan) and said to me “well how do you say that?” I said hmm, not sure, so I googled it and came up with the answer (Oh-an or Ow-en). All good. But then she says “Goodness me, I just wish they would spell their names correctly!”

This is a racist comment isn't it? I was aghast. I mean, I am by no means a perfect person, but I cannot imagine saying that. In fact even tho it was slightly awkward (it was a casual conversation with someone I don’t know) I did call her out on in and say “Well it is a different language! Would you say that about someone with a Russian name?” but I am not sure she took it on board.

Not sure what I am asking really. But have others come across this? Should we continue to challenge it and what should I say?

I can't believe you have picked out a specific zone of England to direct your anger towards. It is a very populus and varied place the South East. Did you do a survey of the country?

Loads of English people have Irish parents or Grandparents (including me)so I don't think there is actually that much anti Irish feeling. The slightly harsh reality is that most people don't think about Ireland enough to feel anything much about Irish people. It is why people get a bit defensive. It is a bit like if I accused you of hating Canadians or something.

How on earth is this ageist?!

Agree, some people really struggle that Irish names aren’t just spelled funny they are in fact another language.

I'm also an older English woman in the South East. When I was young, Irish names were routinely anglicised in the British press and there was no internet, so I had little to no awareness of how different Irish names are from English ones because I'd never seen any. I should think that for many of my generation, Sinead O'Connor was the first person whose name made us notice that Irish names are different.
I now know how to say Irish names that I come across more frequently, such as Roisin and Siobhan (apologies for not including the accents, which I'd need to look up). But I don't know and can't guess how to pronounce names I've not come across before, because the pronunciation isn't based on rules I'm familiar with. So I'd need to ask. i think the woman OP met worded things awkwardly, assuming the quote was accurate. Whether she's racist or just hasn't thought about this stuff much, which obviously reflects privilege and background, I think it's hard to say on this alone.

It’s not the fact people can’t pronounce names correctly, I come across all sorts of names I don’t know how to say initially, it’s the “I wish they would spell their names correctly” that is offensive.

When did some people become so precious?
Years ago a large group of Irish men, and a few women, came over to work on a project. They used the adjacent cafe where I was working. They were great fun and we used to have quizzes on how to spell and pronounce certain words/names and their would be peals of laughter from all quarters when they were mispronounced.
I can only imagine what they would think if they were reading this thread!!

Not racist imo just someone from an older generation speaking their mind. Has the world really come to this?

I am a bit stunned by the thread as well - people seem very angry about Irish people spotting this stuff (pretty aggressive comments on this thread telling people to “get a grip” for instance).

But I’ve seen it at work too. A more “woke” place you’d be hard pressed to find, where they’re tripping over themselves to celebrate (for instance) South Asian heritage week. However, subtle nuances about how Irish and Scottish funeral and death rituals (and expectations around condolence) are different? Forget it.

Ignorant.

I can’t believe that, of all on this thread, it’s this you “can’t believe”.

As for loads of English people having Irish descendants - I’ve lived in England 27 years so I’ve managed to work that one out and have English cousins born here.

But your argument that because there are so many with Irish heritage here means there’s little anti Irish sentiment just doesn’t make logical sense. The anti Irish culture comes from those who have little to no knowledge of the rich culture and history of Ireland and probably grew up in a time where anti Irish tropes were rife. There’s also the “some of my best friends are black” point - people can still say such things and be racist.

I think you have a chip on your shoulder. The world has moved on.

@Xanhium, OK. The world very definitely has not moved on as this thread shows.

But way to denigrate someone’s actual lived experience. 👏

Would love to see how it went for you if you told a person of colour they had a “chip on their shoulder” when experiencing racism. But it’s absolutely fine to say that to an Irish person.

@roxyrothis is a wonderful, astute, articulate response. Well done.

My mother is Irish My father is is English. My 'lived experience' is clearly very different to yours.

Do you speak with an English accent? What do you consider your nationality? Do you have an Irish name?

Maybe ask your mother how much anti Irish sentiment she’s experienced (if she has lived in England for a period of time).

I’m betting the majority of posters moaning about MN being anti-Irish aren’t properly Irish, born and living in Ireland, as we really don’t care about such mundane stuff. 😂😂

@Katalicayes you’re right - I am not properly Irish (born in Belfast, lived there for 18 years, both parents and me Irish passport holders).

Yes, I’m not properly Irish.

Waits quietly for the ignormas to tell me I’m not Irish because I was born in the UK.

No it’s not. I just loved the quote and the memory of a fab tv series with clever writing.
That’s all, I have no skin in this (I’m Scottish and have had ALL the Jock abuse having lived in London).

I know, imagine. You’re just a person from a generation speaking their mind. And a person from another generation has the audacity to speak their mind about what you said when you were speaking your mind? Outrageous. 🙃

I have no idea how to pronounce traditionally spelt Irish names either and would probably have said so in a lighthearted manner.

But what this person said wasn’t lighthearted in the slightest.

Irish people don’t have a hive mind you know 😉
Lots of Irish people don’t consider this ‘stuff’ mundane and do care about it.

Sounds more like ignorance than racism.

It was an ignorant comment. If the older lady is white and the person with the Irish name isn’t then there may be an element of racism but this isn’t specified in the post.

Did you tell them they didn’t know how to spell their own names correctly though, and that they should learn how to do so?🤔

Racism as defined in the equality act explicitly includes nationality and ethnic and national origins as well as colour.

You were aghast!? Maybe you should have stayed home.