Wow the casual racism of some people is shocking isn’t it?

[clary]

I was at an event today working with an older woman who seemed very pleasant (I don’t know her well). We had a list of names of people involved and she looked at an Irish name (Eoghan) and said to me “well how do you say that?” I said hmm, not sure, so I googled it and came up with the answer (Oh-an or Ow-en). All good. But then she says “Goodness me, I just wish they would spell their names correctly!”

This is a racist comment isn't it? I was aghast. I mean, I am by no means a perfect person, but I cannot imagine saying that. In fact even tho it was slightly awkward (it was a casual conversation with someone I don’t know) I did call her out on in and say “Well it is a different language! Would you say that about someone with a Russian name?” but I am not sure she took it on board.

Not sure what I am asking really. But have others come across this? Should we continue to challenge it and what should I say?

Please don’t tell other people they’re not experiencing racism.

👌

Yes, and it’s absolutely an ethnic prejudice. Irish people are ‘not quite white’ for the type of people who make anti-Irish remarks. Who, in my experience, are generally also racist about non-white people, whether those people are Irish or not.

Even given the prevalent anti-Irishness on Mn, and my own experiences living for decades in England, I’m astonished by this thread. You don’t get to tell other people they’re not experiencing something, and it’s frankly incredibly people are rushing to tell Irish people that anti-Irishness isn’t widespread.

I wouldn't class this as racist in a million years. I could go on all morning about the actual racism I've seen growing up in London. Things like having stuff thrown at you and called the p word all your life because you're slightly darker.

I generally have no idea how to pronounce Irish names until someone tells me. Why would I if I don't speak the language

I really couldn’t get activated about this one (I am Irish BTW). She said something a bit silly, it’s hardly on the level of racism and now she has learned how to pronounce that name. No harm done really.

There is some real racism afoot currently in the UK and anti immigration feeling. Maybe focus your aghast energy on that.

Well I just learnt something today. Thank you. Won’t use that phrase again.

*yawn...I'm not prepared to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Irish_sentiment

Anyone who thinks anti-Irish prejudice died off with the end of the ‘No Blacks, no dogs, no Irish’ signs should have a read through to the 21st century part of this Wiki.

Jeremy Clarkson was merrily mocking the name Padraig on his quiz show last week. Classic Clarkson and pretty uncomfortable. I didn't like it and am not sure the contestant was thrilled. It's a them and us power play. Fairly sure even Clarkson wouldn't have shown open disrespect about ,say, a Nigerian name. Not sure why anti Irish sentiment or mockery is still seen as gentle or innocent.

I can assure you I have very little interest in trying to convince a bigot of their own bigotry.

Irish isnt a race

This feels a bit like ‘a what can I be offended about today’ comment? As the granddaughter of a protestant from Dublin, born and brought up in Scotland, with an English DH (who moved to Scotland as a child with a London accent), I have some awareness of ‘anti’ attitudes. The woman was perhaps thoughtless IMO.

Having an Irish name is lovely, but can be difficult for most of the rest of the world to pronounce. She may not have worded her comment well, but I wouldn’t assume racism.

I suspect that, as the Irish people we come across in the UK speak English po as we do, but just with an accent we're thrown by a written language that has phonemes that have almost almost zero in common with ours. We expect some similarity, but it's simply not there.

It's vastly easier to take a stab at a French or German name and the worst that can happen is that we get the accent wrong. But most of us genuinely don't know where to start post the C of Caoilfhionn or Caoimhe.

Well it’s not racist but it is Xenophobic and to me sounds condescending. I’m Irish, I agree that it can be amusing when people mispronounce names and I absolutely acknowledge that pronunciation can be very tricky. However, I don’t find the statement that ‘they’ should spell things ‘properly’ remotely amusing. Especially when you consider that British colonial powers quite literally inflicted violence on Irish people including children in an effort to eradicate our language. I don’t think this lady is to blame for that, but her statement was ignorant and snide.

So in the first post you say ‘they’ need to spell names correctly, later you say ‘Irish’, so what did she actually say?

I wasn't particularly taught any British history at school (in Ireland) aside from the major wars or where the British were relevant to Irish history, so it always seemed fair enough that they didn't teach Irish history in too much detail in British schools. Most people I've met seem familiar enough with the "big" events in Irish history.

I have a very Irish name and am regularly asked why my parents "did that to me" which is pretty disappointing. I've never seen someone with a very Spanish or Russian or Indian name asked that question.

Of course she didn’t think it was just a yewneeque spelling, they aren’t Google-able! She was an ignorant arsehole.

Get over yourself. Unless one speaks or understands the Irish language how the hell are we to understand how to pronounce such names? Being offended and precious for the sake of it.

😂😂😂😂😂

You genuinely think this is racism?

To be honest, I'm Irish and just wish people would spell things properly.

The issue isn’t with being unable to navigate the language and pronunciation, it’s with the complaint that it isn’t ‘proper’. The spelling is perfectly proper, it’s just Irish, not English. The English language is not the standard for propriety.

I am Irish, and I feel as though the Irish language and Irish names unconsciously irritate some English people. It somehow triggers certain people. Maybe it's the coloniser mindset and a desire to control.

I invoke Hanlon's Razor - don't ascribe to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.