Wow the casual racism of some people is shocking isn’t it?

[clary]

I was at an event today working with an older woman who seemed very pleasant (I don’t know her well). We had a list of names of people involved and she looked at an Irish name (Eoghan) and said to me “well how do you say that?” I said hmm, not sure, so I googled it and came up with the answer (Oh-an or Ow-en). All good. But then she says “Goodness me, I just wish they would spell their names correctly!”

This is a racist comment isn't it? I was aghast. I mean, I am by no means a perfect person, but I cannot imagine saying that. In fact even tho it was slightly awkward (it was a casual conversation with someone I don’t know) I did call her out on in and say “Well it is a different language! Would you say that about someone with a Russian name?” but I am not sure she took it on board.

Not sure what I am asking really. But have others come across this? Should we continue to challenge it and what should I say?

That’s missing the point though.

If you couldn’t pronounce someone’s name would you suggest to them or to other bystanders that they should start spelling it correctly, ie the English way?

this thread is embarrassing

It's a good question. I constantly get asked to say whether my ethnicity is White British or White Irish. Well actually it's both, though my nationality is British. So I usually tick other white background, or if i can write it in, I do, in the hope they'll change their stupid boxes. Surely many to most people in the UK are a mix!

It is racist not to make an effort to pronounce foreign names properly - there's that meme about the fact we can pronounce Tchaikovsky properly (and spell it) so we can pronounce eg Nigerian names properly if we put out minds to it. But given all the odd spellings of names these days, she might not have realised it was a foreign name and just thought it was odd. Or she just doesn't have any real understanding of foreign languages generally.

Maybe you should look up the meaning of the word racist, OP, you're embarrassing yourself.

Fair enough, but we don’t know the nationality or ethnicity of the person, only the name. Irish names are popular in the uk. To me it sounds like an ignorant comment that makes OP’s colleague look a bit stupid.

Interestingly I just looked up "having a paddy" and it's considered a racial slur in the US. Conversely there are expressions they use there which we would be shocked about here.

Maybe we could just stop assuming everyone is being offensive for the sake of it and save our ire for the people who are really nasty?

Wow. Unless she was literally being sarcastic and taking the piss out of the fact she didn't know how to pronounce it herself. Which clearly isn't the case.

What a dreadfully ignorant individual. And if she thinks Irish names are unusual or exotic she must never have met or even seen the name in print of anyone with a name from anywhere further afield?

you’re not racist but you think non English names are funny and you often comment wondering how people manage to pronounce them because they aren’t English….

To those who think the comment was acceptable, are you aware that the British state quite literally criminalised the Irish language during part of its occupation of Ireland? That it forced people to Anglicise their names in order to receive (woefully inadequate) nutrition during the Great Hunger? It was called ‘taking the soup’. That children were at times beaten if they spoke Irish at school?

But there’s absolutely no issue with people not being able to pronounce names in a different language.

The issue is this woman saying people should start spelling their names ‘correctly’ because they use an Irish language spelling instead of an English one.

Yes, well aware as I’m Irish but it was hundreds of years ago now. The woman was ignorant but that’s it. Move on. Irish people are no longer victims.

We do know the nationality. OP said the person was Irish in her second post.

Your choice to place what importance on history you see fit, equally I have that choice. Affording it importance doesn’t indicate failure to ‘move on’. Nothing I have said has suggested Irish people are victims, but I certainly can see that we can be the targets of discriminatory attitudes - which may be borne of ignorance as well as or instead of malice.

I think that not knowing how to pronounce it at first glance it is probably borne of ignorance. As a student teacher, I had a teacher ask, "How on earth am I supposed to say that name?" The child was a new pupil, and called Niamh. I'd been to a Catholic school with a lot of Irish and children of Irish descent, so knew how to pronounce it, and said it was Irish. She just looked surprised.

I would be irked at the, "Goodness, me, I just wish they would spell their names correctly!” because... the chap was probably Irish/of Irish descent. I'm English, live and work in Wales, and don't expect the Welsh to change all of their spellings and names to suit me. I use it as a learning opportunity.

@emptythebinyou’re right: the pig ignorant (and sometimes pretty aggressive) rebukes from English people to Irish people for having the temerity to challenge what is clearly an offensive comment are embarrassing.

@Piglet89Absolutely

I have a French surname which is difficult to spell and pronounce! Should I be offended if people ask me to spell my name or pronounce it incorrectly? As it is, when I have to give my name I always spell it automatically. Maybe I should go on a rant and declare people to be racist too! You are far too sensitive OP.

Should I be offended if people ask me to spell my name or pronounce it incorrectly?
No, but that’s not the issue here.

Would you be offended if someone said that you should really start spelling it ‘correctly’ (ie change it to whatever makes sense in English).

Or if they told a colleague behind your back that they wished the French would start spelling their names properly.

@PistachioTiramisuno, you should not be offended by that. You may need to work on your comprehension skills though!

It’s a bit tedious. But not racist. You, however are definitely ageist.

@CurlewKatehow is the OP ageist?

The woman concerned’s age is irrelevant. And “older but pleasant” How is that not ageist?

@CurlewKate Why have you put ‘older but pleasant’ in quotation marks as if that was what OP said?

That phrasing gives a completely different connotation to what she actually said, which was:
‘I was at an event today working with an older woman who seemed very pleasant’

Maybe they wouldn't be so thrilled if they had names that they were told to spell properly.

I'm Irish living in England with a straightforward English name. My kids have English names because I didn't want to put them through what I knew would happen here.

@CurlewKate but the OP didn’t say that did she? Why are you making things up?