Wow the casual racism of some people is shocking isn’t it?

[clary]

I was at an event today working with an older woman who seemed very pleasant (I don’t know her well). We had a list of names of people involved and she looked at an Irish name (Eoghan) and said to me “well how do you say that?” I said hmm, not sure, so I googled it and came up with the answer (Oh-an or Ow-en). All good. But then she says “Goodness me, I just wish they would spell their names correctly!”

This is a racist comment isn't it? I was aghast. I mean, I am by no means a perfect person, but I cannot imagine saying that. In fact even tho it was slightly awkward (it was a casual conversation with someone I don’t know) I did call her out on in and say “Well it is a different language! Would you say that about someone with a Russian name?” but I am not sure she took it on board.

Not sure what I am asking really. But have others come across this? Should we continue to challenge it and what should I say?

I used to have a job where about 4 - 5,000
school kids names (from all over the country) came accross my desk for certificates to be printed. Unusual or unique names fine, names which probably originated in other cultures fine, very normal names that were spelt in increasingly varied ways extremely annoying as it was so easy to get it wrong. 9 different ways to spell Rebecca or 8 different ways to spell Kaitlyn were particular highlights, I moaned a lot and would have said things like can’t they ( meaning the parents obviously) just spell the name correctly. Irish name spellings could be mistaken very easily for unique spellings of more usual English names so I wouldn’t jump to racism over this particular name. One of my dear friends has an Irish name which is pronounced in a very beautiful way ( her families are not Irish as it happens) it’s not a name I ever see suggested on MN and you would never guess how it’s pronounced if you saw it written down, she kindly explains it to people the first time she meets them.

You will get people disagreeing with you, but honestly, I think a lot of Brits really put 0 effort into learning how to pronounce names from other backgrounds and cultures. My wife is German and her name truly is not difficult to pronounce, yet everyone always wants to call her by a shortened version. I always find it sad that Chinese people choose and English name. It's really not that difficult to learn and remember a few syllables or letter combinations you don't often see in your own language.

I suspect this woman is just ignorant rather than willfully racist, that being said.

Also lol this thread...given the history between the UK and Ireland, it's really not hard to see why mocking Irish names might be hurtful.

Mumsnet is a notoriously anti Irish space. See also “My toddler had a paddy…”

Many users of this site have so little self awareness of just of ingrained anti-Irish sentiment is among the English - particularly those of the south east.

They walk among us.

Replace it with an Indian name, and it becomes clear it's not ok.

I have an Irish name and I'm constantly having to remind people that it's another language and that's why it's spelt like that.

For all the smart-Alecs pointing out “this is xenophobia, not racism” like it’s your big day at the Supreme Court and the legislation defines the two terms differently with different outcomes - it’s still a discriminatory, ignorant, rude comment.

Dressing it up as another kind of discrimination doesn’t make it somehow better and the fact you think it does says so much about how ignorant you all are.

What else might she have meant by “they”?

I don't know, there's something in the wish "they'd" rather than a generic people which makes me think she knew. and lots of English people criticise Irish spellings knowing they're Irish for not being correct. i

'People these days', working class people, young mums, uneducated people, there are lots of things that might have been going through her mind. Not everybody would see Eoghan and instantly know that it is Irish they might think Tragedeigh instead. I'm not saying that the other 'theys' would be fine, they would be prejudiced in their own ways but they wouldn't specifically be racist/xenophobic/anti Irish.

You only have to read the comments here to see the cesspit this forum has become. The racist apologiser comments just keep coming in.

What does being white have to do with it?

And "it's ok to have opinions on a name.... if it's in another language".... is it?

This is the type of racist shit that people have to put up with on a daily basis in this country, but goes entirely unrecognised.

Please refresh yourself on what constitutes racism in the Equality Act....

True - she may well have been so abominably ignorant she didn’t actually realise it was Irish. Though I think that’s probably a stretch TBH.

Laughably, these folk used to call the Irish “thick”.

In Victorian times the Irish were often depicted as monkeys, especially Irish politicians asking for home rule. The implication being that they were intellectually and racially inferior.

Punch magazine was particularly infamous for the cartoon depictions.

Yeah I don’t think this situation falls under the Equality act. Now if the lady said that’s a foreign sounding name and I’m banning them from the event you’d have a point. That didn’t happen though so calm down.

So is op coming back?

Aghast really? Heavens above !

I'm Irish so of course instantly recognise Irish names but I don't really know how well they are recognised across the UK. There seems to be a bit of an obsession with class when it comes to names in the UK so I do think that there is a chance that this was more of class issue than an Irish one. The OP would have to come back and clarify.

@MaggieMopexcept misnaming a French pastry doesn’t involve denigrating the language and culture of an entire nation - which you have already tried to eradicate - because you think your way is better than theirs. I guess there’s that.

Suggest your read or watch Brian Friel’s play “Translations” to help you understand the distinction.

And again, I say: the English called US thick.

🤣

Ffs
The term racism is losing all meaning due to this sort of bollocks.
You must lead a very limited life OP if this truly shocks you.

Don’t be so ridiculous! I work with a Vicky, Vikki and Vicki - it’s like me saying why can’t they all be bloody spelled correctly. (We all DO say that, multiple times a month!)

I think it’s a real stretch to call that racist. It’s a funny name to pronounce if you’re not from that country. Loads of Irish names are. I have Irish family and often say ‘how on earth do you pronounce that?’ every time a new baby is born. I’m not being racist, I just don’t know how to say the name.

It’s usually ‘my toddler had a meltdown’!

@maudelovesharoldthis is a comment designed to detract from the number of times it actually is “my toddler had a paddy” - which should be zero, but sadly isn’t.

@MaggieMopI wasn’t talking about the French FFS.

I was obviously talking about the English - the nationality of the woman who made the comment the OP described. When I wrote “you” - I really meant “one”…the pronoun “on” in French, if that helps you understand.

However, the fact you think the adjective “retarded” is acceptable in modern parlance says all I need to know.

I have reported your post.

Was she white? Usually, these days, some white people see irish people as 'one of them' so can make a comment but not out of bigotry, just observation

Its like a scouse taking the piss out of a Bristol person's accent, maybe? Like very different to taking thr piss out of an Indian man's accent, who is very much 'othered' if that makes sense

I dunno, i think yabu here

Then again, it would be up to an irish person to decide i guess

This is hilarious.
Did the old dear give you any smelling salts to calm down your aghastness 😂